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Old 01-19-2010, 04:20 PM   #1
dabox
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Default less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

hi i live in toronto and i have boxed on and off for 15 years i guess and i have also done other combat sports like bjj,wrestling and a bit of muay thai...

i am 28 and as i have grown up i have noticed there are less boxing gyms then when i started and before i started there were more boxing gyms then when i started and i started to think of why......


first mma and other martial arts/sports are not really to blame

boxing coaches are......

i always had a strong passion for boxing and many of friends are also into boxing/mma etc


but here is the thing i have noticed from my own experience and of others i have spoken too...

the reason less boxing gyms are capable of being open are the ****ing so called coaches we have in north america.

example: many guys come to start boxing and are all happy but that happiness quickly goes away when day after day you have some grumpy
old and usually over weight guy telling you..."yeah kid go hit the back for 6 round and show box before that"
once in a while he might come tell use the jab more lol if your lucky

and if you compete then once a ****ing week he might give you a couple rounds of pad work.....

but most of the time you could be doing everything wrong but as long as thumping the heavy way or skipping it's all good.....


i remember i brought quite a few of my friends into the boxing gyms i trained at and they got feed up after a few mouths and left...some of these guys were tough guys with potental....


i remember when i was about 21 or so i got feed up as well after years of this and i started doing brazilian jiu-jitsu and my first class was an eye opener....
here i was paying the same as in boxing but i was actually being taught moves, we drilled the moves, sparred, had 2 coaches walking around fixing mistakes, this was my start....

as i got better and better, and did less classes....the coaches still came around fixed the mistakes and give advice even to the most advanced guys and we worked on stuff etc....


i did bjj for about 4 years straight and still go here and there,
when i did wrestling and thai boxing, i noticed again in those sports from beginners to advancedd fighters were still paid attention too.


even in non mma martials(mma martial arts aka those that work lol are bjj,boxing,wrestling,thai boxing and sometimes judo,sambo or kyoushin etc)

so even in stuff like takewondo and karate which does not work well, you still have someone paying attention to you and teaching,

point is you still getting something for you money....


back to boxing my fav sport and the one i am the most skilled at,

i go to the gym and pay 100 dollars a mouth to hit a ****ing heavy bag and teach my friend because the coach sit around doing nothing....but complain about not getting any students...
they even sometimes give me angry looks if i try help out a beginner by giving tips etc.....


dont blame mma, in fact i have noticed a lot of students sign up to boxing now because of mma....reason being they want to have good hands for that sport....


these coaches dont really coach anything and people get bored and frustrated and leave, and other go to these other sports where they are treated some that matters...


and the ones that stay often are not that well schooled and it is one the reason why you have better schooled europeans schooling fighters from here, because boxing is quite different there


but as a result of having less great fighters, the sports gets less popular...


remember this is not 1950 where you have to prove something to some fat coach so you can actually start getting something for the money you paid to train there, these days johhnny nobody will just go to the muay thai school across the street and you won't money to pay rent...end of story


i hope you have some comments

thanks
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

It sounds like you've just had some bad personal experiences (and ultimately, anecdotal and not necessarily reflective of the experiences of anyone who hooks up with a boxing coach...just as there are some disgruntled crappy public school teachers and some really quality dedicated ones).
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

I agree and disagree. I agree about the attitude of many coaches. My coach seemed evil, from a distance. I knew nothing and was thinking, "why won't this guy help me?" I then stopped thinking about him, hit some of the group classes, did tons of rope, shadow, and bag work and THEN he started talking to me. So I agree in the sense that sometimes boxing coaches are a bit "stand-offish" however I would counter that boxing is very different than other "contact" sports.

I think BJJ and the other contact sports are "different" in that you can "fake" them and/or perform them in a "friendly" state. Rolling around tapping each other gives a guy his contact sport fix and hey, tapping is cool and accepted. Great move, let's roll some more. This is the genius of the training system. Two horribly unevenly matched guys can get no the mat and the "scrub" lives to tell the tale. Even the other sports you mentioned are more about the Art than the Martial, belts systems, katas etc... I say this as a person who loves, respects, and does BJJ.

Boxing, even at its lowest level (in your own gym), is a rough sport. It also contains what I believe to be the toughest training system and I don't say this as a compliment. It is a detriment to the sport. The boxing system is set up to chew up physically and mentally weak people as "Work". If a guy is ripping you up in there what do you do? Take a knee? Lose all form and get a concussion (even with headgear)? There is NO acceptable "out" in boxing even in training. That is OK in a 1930s slum not for an office worker. Today the "casual practitioner" keeps the lights on.

I think the frustration you feel is you actually ignoring the fact... It is almost impossible to "casually" box. If a guy can't move, keep his hands up, judge distance, and punch at a minimum to keep a guy from mauling him he is literally useless as a student of boxing. I think the coaches know this. This is why they tell you to do that stuff other stuff first. You can't get anything out of getting pounded. You need the foundation first. BJJ is the exact opposite.

Mind you I don't even mean 5 rounds. Most guys walking in off of the street, in America at least, can't do 3-2 minute rounds without being on the edge of throwing up. Sadly, that will get you KTFO even in headgear and 16 oz gloves.

Most boxing gyms must exist with two types of customer, the Cardio Box Crew and a Hardcore Crew. One set keeps the lights on. The other set is there to up their game. I agree with you though, coaches can step up and keep the "Casual Practitioner" interested. They must. If not the Sweet Science will be a Sweet Memory.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

Most trainers these days are only about the money. They don't care or put any effort into their up and comers. They complain about a measley $50-$100 per month when in fact they don't even earn that.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
It sounds like you've just had some bad personal experiences (and ultimately, anecdotal and not necessarily reflective of the experiences of anyone who hooks up with a boxing coach...just as there are some disgruntled crappy public school teachers and some really quality dedicated ones).
I think he is right about corporate/chain boxing gyms. The coaches make money through personal training sessions. They is literal incentive NOT to work with you. I think the bigger more white collar your city the less boxing gyms and the more the coaches are on a paper chase. Sucks but true.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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Originally Posted by dudemcdudeson View Post
Most trainers these days are only about the money. They don't care or put any effort into their up and comers. They complain about a measley $50-$100 per month when in fact they don't even earn that.
i go to a amauter club and none of the coach's get paid there. theres four of them coaching over 5 nights. 2 for adults 2 for seniors. i assume u mean only am's coz im sure all pro coach's wud be alot more dedicated
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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Originally Posted by dabox View Post
hi i live in toronto and i have boxed on and off for 15 years i guess and i have also done other combat sports like bjj,wrestling and a bit of muay thai...

i am 28 and as i have grown up i have noticed there are less boxing gyms then when i started and before i started there were more boxing gyms then when i started and i started to think of why......


first mma and other martial arts/sports are not really to blame

boxing coaches are......

i always had a strong passion for boxing and many of friends are also into boxing/mma etc


but here is the thing i have noticed from my own experience and of others i have spoken too...

the reason less boxing gyms are capable of being open are the ****ing so called coaches we have in north america.

example: many guys come to start boxing and are all happy but that happiness quickly goes away when day after day you have some grumpy
old and usually over weight guy telling you..."yeah kid go hit the back for 6 round and show box before that"
once in a while he might come tell use the jab more lol if your lucky

and if you compete then once a ****ing week he might give you a couple rounds of pad work.....

but most of the time you could be doing everything wrong but as long as thumping the heavy way or skipping it's all good.....


i remember i brought quite a few of my friends into the boxing gyms i trained at and they got feed up after a few mouths and left...some of these guys were tough guys with potental....


i remember when i was about 21 or so i got feed up as well after years of this and i started doing brazilian jiu-jitsu and my first class was an eye opener....
here i was paying the same as in boxing but i was actually being taught moves, we drilled the moves, sparred, had 2 coaches walking around fixing mistakes, this was my start....

as i got better and better, and did less classes....the coaches still came around fixed the mistakes and give advice even to the most advanced guys and we worked on stuff etc....


i did bjj for about 4 years straight and still go here and there,
when i did wrestling and thai boxing, i noticed again in those sports from beginners to advancedd fighters were still paid attention too.


even in non mma martials(mma martial arts aka those that work lol are bjj,boxing,wrestling,thai boxing and sometimes judo,sambo or kyoushin etc)

so even in stuff like takewondo and karate which does not work well, you still have someone paying attention to you and teaching,

point is you still getting something for you money....


back to boxing my fav sport and the one i am the most skilled at,

i go to the gym and pay 100 dollars a mouth to hit a ****ing heavy bag and teach my friend because the coach sit around doing nothing....but complain about not getting any students...
they even sometimes give me angry looks if i try help out a beginner by giving tips etc.....


dont blame mma, in fact i have noticed a lot of students sign up to boxing now because of mma....reason being they want to have good hands for that sport....


these coaches dont really coach anything and people get bored and frustrated and leave, and other go to these other sports where they are treated some that matters...


and the ones that stay often are not that well schooled and it is one the reason why you have better schooled europeans schooling fighters from here, because boxing is quite different there


but as a result of having less great fighters, the sports gets less popular...


remember this is not 1950 where you have to prove something to some fat coach so you can actually start getting something for the money you paid to train there, these days johhnny nobody will just go to the muay thai school across the street and you won't money to pay rent...end of story


i hope you have some comments

thanks
They were weeded out for having no patience
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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They were weeded out for having no patience
That sounds cool, but that is what keeps the gym and the sport alive. Casual fans.
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

I have been to two local boxing gyms near my home in CT. It has been a while now since I have gone (I am now 28 yrs old) but at the time when i was around 22 or 23, I was actually discouraged from working out at both places because of my age. The coaches at both gyms only wanted to work with kids who were young enough to develop at an early age into fghters. Although I can almost understand the mentality of prefering to work with someone younger, rather than someone like myself who was already "over the hill", it just really sucked being pushed away from a sport I love. On the other hand, MMA gyms are filled with people of all different ages. The coaches in those places will let just about anyone come in and work out or take a class. I think if boxing coaches were a little more open minded to working with more adults rather than youn prospects, boxing gyms would be just as popular as MMA gyms
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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Originally Posted by bald_head_slick View Post
I agree and disagree. I agree about the attitude of many coaches. My coach seemed evil, from a distance. I knew nothing and was thinking, "why won't this guy help me?" I then stopped thinking about him, hit some of the group classes, did tons of rope, shadow, and bag work and THEN he started talking to me. So I agree in the sense that sometimes boxing coaches are a bit "stand-offish" however I would counter that boxing is very different than other "contact" sports.

I think BJJ and the other contact sports are "different" in that you can "fake" them and/or perform them in a "friendly" state. Rolling around tapping each other gives a guy his contact sport fix and hey, tapping is cool and accepted. Great move, let's roll some more. This is the genius of the training system. Two horribly unevenly matched guys can get no the mat and the "scrub" lives to tell the tale. Even the other sports you mentioned are more about the Art than the Martial, belts systems, katas etc... I say this as a person who loves, respects, and does BJJ.

Boxing, even at its lowest level (in your own gym), is a rough sport. It also contains what I believe to be the toughest training system and I don't say this as a compliment. It is a detriment to the sport. The boxing system is set up to chew up physically and mentally weak people as "Work". If a guy is ripping you up in there what do you do? Take a knee? Lose all form and get a concussion (even with headgear)? There is NO acceptable "out" in boxing even in training. That is OK in a 1930s slum not for an office worker. Today the "casual practitioner" keeps the lights on.

I think the frustration you feel is you actually ignoring the fact... It is almost impossible to "casually" box. If a guy can't move, keep his hands up, judge distance, and punch at a minimum to keep a guy from mauling him he is literally useless as a student of boxing. I think the coaches know this. This is why they tell you to do that stuff other stuff first. You can't get anything out of getting pounded. You need the foundation first. BJJ is the exact opposite.

Mind you I don't even mean 5 rounds. Most guys walking in off of the street, in America at least, can't do 3-2 minute rounds without being on the edge of throwing up. Sadly, that will get you KTFO even in headgear and 16 oz gloves.

Most boxing gyms must exist with two types of customer, the Cardio Box Crew and a Hardcore Crew. One set keeps the lights on. The other set is there to up their game. I agree with you though, coaches can step up and keep the "Casual Practitioner" interested. They must. If not the Sweet Science will be a Sweet Memory.
Great post and very true
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

A new boxing gym just opened by my house. I was actually quite surprised but it's probably just the cardio type and not a full blown gym.
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

geeez ! you guys spend that much to train ?
sounds like your just going to the wrong type of gyms .
growing up i used to pay 1 pound a week to train (around 2000-2004) and in my gym there was always atleast 4 trainers , usually old men with 25 years plus of experience , they were always hands on though , if a little grumpy and unforgiving .
suppose it depends on the area you live

oh and all of the trainers bar one were there voluntarily , all the money went back into the club , for kit and transport to fights etc
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireal221 View Post
I have been to two local boxing gyms near my home in CT. It has been a while now since I have gone (I am now 28 yrs old) but at the time when i was around 22 or 23, I was actually discouraged from working out at both places because of my age. The coaches at both gyms only wanted to work with kids who were young enough to develop at an early age into fghters. Although I can almost understand the mentality of prefering to work with someone younger, rather than someone like myself who was already "over the hill", it just really sucked being pushed away from a sport I love. On the other hand, MMA gyms are filled with people of all different ages. The coaches in those places will let just about anyone come in and work out or take a class. I think if boxing coaches were a little more open minded to working with more adults rather than youn prospects, boxing gyms would be just as popular as MMA gyms
Just wondering, how long did you go? How hard did you work alone?
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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i go to a amauter club and none of the coach's get paid there. theres four of them coaching over 5 nights. 2 for adults 2 for seniors. i assume u mean only am's coz im sure all pro coach's wud be alot more dedicated
where im at the pro coaches are only there in the am, the nights are amateur hour and there is a distinct difference in the coaches and the atmosphere, and its not right, because you need a proper foundation from the beginning in boxing to be succesfull, i got pretty lucky because the first gym i went to was a small hardcore gym in an inner city, where there were never more than 6 or 7 of us at a time so everyone got proper attention specifically the ones that were just starting
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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Originally Posted by snakevanduff View Post
geeez ! you guys spend that much to train ?
sounds like your just going to the wrong type of gyms .
growing up i used to pay 1 pound a week to train (around 2000-2004) and in my gym there was always atleast 4 trainers , usually old men with 25 years plus of experience , they were always hands on though , if a little grumpy and unforgiving .
suppose it depends on the area you live

oh and all of the trainers bar one were there voluntarily , all the money went back into the club , for kit and transport to fights etc
That is basically out of the question in the States. Isn't there a retirement age and pay system for retirees in the UK? Also, isn't public transit pretty good? Not so in the States.

Retire and for most folks it is welcome to poverty. Not too many old folks that can even think of working for free. Here a bus ride is like an hour in each direction for 5 minutes by car. Insane.
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