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Old 01-19-2010, 11:19 PM   #31
dabox
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

also someone mentioned being patient etc

those same coaches arent all that patient when you havent paid your dues on time...lol

and being if you pay to train you should something for your money

doesnt matter if your 9 or 36 years old...you are there to learn boxing this is what you paid for
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:30 AM   #32
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

The problem with boxing gyms, in my own experience, is the training style. Not the intensity, but the style.

The coaches work in the ring holding pads for guys. Everyone not on the pads basically fends for themselves most of the training session. I've got 6 years of kickboxing before I started boxing, so I know how to train on my own with the bag and correct my own mistakes as I feel them. Most people without a lot of experience can't do that for themselves. They spend an hour ingraining bad habits, and 3 rounds working the pads with the coach trying to correct everything they've ingrained wrong.

The other problem is the sparring. The sparring is always hard, and always everything goes. This has the benefit of making you tough and getting used to taking a hit. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you to learn how to put new stuff to use in your game. You don't want to try something new in sparring if you know it means you'll probably be covering the canvas in your own blood. You go back to what you're already good at to keep from getting beat on, and you don't grow as a fighter.
That was the biggest difference when I transitioned over from muay Thai. When kickboxing, most of the sparring was done at about 50% intensity, and there was a lot of situational sparring. For example, we'd do a round where one guy could throw anything he wants, and the other guy has to find a way to counter with a round kick, knee, right straight, whatever. The hard, all out sparring days were once every two weeks or so. The end result was we had a gym full of very solid technical fighters who outclassed most of thier competition (we're talking fighters who beat amateur champions in thier debut fight).
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:55 AM   #33
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

wow this all rings so true for me as well.

at 24 and boxing 18 months no one will give me time of day either

there was one trainer who said i had real potential but he was fired because he spent too much time with individual clients (crazy right?)

i know i'm a decent boxer and i could be pretty good if i got some attention and some sparring. im strong & quick and i'm motivated and willing 2 push myself to the limit - but no one will teach me. they're all too busy training their favourites or the women and to be fair how can 2 trainers give attention when theres 10-15 people they are responsible for at any one time.. sad...

but it has inspired me to change my career path, i am going to go into personal training and boxing coaching. i'm going to get the qualifications and volunteer at local gyms to get experience. in the meantime i will personal train / boxercise clients in the day. then i will save money and open a small gym of my own which reasonably high fee's but guaranteed EXCELLENT customer service FOR ALL. If a kid has potential or adult they will get attention. if someone needs more attention it is up to them to negotiate it with the trainer.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

i have noticed what great white hype said as well in muay thai gyms, and it is a little similar to that in russian boxing gyms as well. not shocking those fighters are usually well schooled

and dfh85, i agree with everything you said and to be quiet honest....who the **** do these trainers think they are? your the reason their getting paid and have a place to coach in.....

and a lot of them talk very high and mighty about who they will and wont train, but most of them nothing special themselfs as boxers....

and i have seen some trainers look like garbage when they spar themselfs lol
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:29 PM   #35
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

4 real man, but hey.. alot of the time it isn't the trainer it is the gym owner

For example there is money in boxing now, in running a gym, decent money.. but only if your getting a high yield of undemanding customers.

You want them in and out in quick time to free up bags and floor space, you want maximum individual coverage from the minimum amount of trainers so that every cardio bunny boxer FEELS like he's getting the real deal but in actual facts hes being told things a mirror could tell him.

Maybe the trainer wants to work with you individually for the whole session but he can't.. his boss wants him to manage 5+ people at once, all new and different faces, coming and going all the time. As a result he thinks that every guy in the gym is like that, and why bother trying to forge a personal connection as a trainer with a guy when a) he could walk out tomorrow b) he could just be there for cardio c) you have 5 other guys who IT IS YOUR JOB to pay attention to.

I.E.

Gym I used to train at:

Get in, wrap hands, warmup, 3 rounds HB, 2 rounds pads, 1 round double-end, 30 mins conditioning, cya. The ONLY attention you get is on the pads, and the guy has been through 100 people that day all hitting the pads, he does not give 2 shits if you pivot or not. Even in conditioning it is done in a group so its not really tailor made to you. You wouldn't be surprised if you found yourself doing 10 press ups, 10 sit ups, 10 star jumps along side 2 ladies and an obese kid even though you could easily do 100 x that amount.

This is the problem when boxing becomes a commodity and every gym is trying to attract the cardio bunny who wants the "thrill" or training in a "real" boxing gym but doesn't want to put in the hard work and go through the pain. It makes it harder for us real guys who want to do this shit to find the real gyms where we can progress.

I'm 24 I don't have time to be ****ing around like this. So when I'm in the gym I go 100% and I will ask questions and generally be annoying. When my trainer for that day tries to tell me I'm done on the heavy bag after 3 rounds and to take off my gloves and go do situps I say "Na. I'm gonna do 5 more I'm not even tired" with a smile.

Luckily I am not easily beaten I do have an idea of how to get the training I want. In my gym there is an option to train with the "in house" trainers (ie cardio boxers) or train "alone" and then contract with a private trainer who works in the gym. My only problem is, how do I approach one of these private trainers? I'm kinda proud and don't like getting made a fool out of, I'm scared that they'll go "Why u asking me?" or something. I already asked one guy and he said he couldn't because if he is seen taking "in house" boxers (ie. taking the gyms own business) they wont let him coach there privately.....
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:10 PM   #36
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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A new boxing gym just opened by my house. I was actually quite surprised but it's probably just the cardio type and not a full blown gym.
So I went to that so called new boxing gym by my house last night. It's hardly what I would call a gym just one of the fitness boot camp style boxing gyms, with no ring and they don't even do real sparring there. Just some heavy bags, mits and gloves that's about it, what a let down.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:34 PM   #37
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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IMO a serious person would have to start very young and train with people who care for no $ involved.
Well, in a perfect world, I think that's what every boxer would want for themselves. It's just not reality and it doesn't make an athlete any more or less serious if they didn't have the chance to start early or don't have the best gym available to them.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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Well, in a perfect world, I think that's what every boxer would want for themselves. It's just not reality and it doesn't make an athlete any more or less serious if they didn't have the chance to start early or don't have the best gym available to them.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

An interesting Thread, I Feel for you Guys. I know where youre coming From, its Bollocks in Gyms like those you mention.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:20 PM   #40
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

I feel like I'm being cheated. I have a 1996 Olympic coach which is pretty cool... but it's mostly "4 rounds of bag, hit the double end, jump rope for 3 rounds." When we do hit the mitts, it's for a good 2 rounds without him actually working on movement. I basically learn from myself by asking other people what I'm doing wrong in the ring because my coach just doesn't give you a straight answer
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:17 AM   #41
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

I feel blessed, there seems to be loads of good amateur gyms in Liverpool!
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:58 PM   #42
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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i have noticed what great white hype said as well in muay thai gyms, and it is a little similar to that in russian boxing gyms as well. not shocking those fighters are usually well schooled

and dfh85, i agree with everything you said and to be quiet honest....who the **** do these trainers think they are? your the reason their getting paid and have a place to coach in.....

and a lot of them talk very high and mighty about who they will and wont train, but most of them nothing special themselfs as boxers....

and i have seen some trainers look like garbage when they spar themselfs lol
Agree with you. In Russian gyms you do a lot more conditional sparring, working on situations than in western europe/small uk gyms where I did most of my boxing (mind you, I was never at a top club in those countries).

I was quite pissed off when i stopped competing. Main issues I had were:

(1) Lack of matching - I wanted to get frequent bouts, as I'm one of the people who performs beter when he's in the ring a lot, and am a bit stiff, less agressive when Im in the ring rarely. I was lucky when I got 5-6 bouts a year (due to things falling through, coaches falling out and deciding not to match people, paperwork not being returned on time etc.). This was my biggest disapointment given i was always in top shape and ready o take bouts of short notice. given i'd boxed for a while, i should have been in there a lot more.

(2) Infrequent sparring with people my own weight, making me try walk down other heavyweights and being surpirsed! or at times just infrequent sparring leading up to bouts

(3) Coaches who would hang off your nuts when you won, and then ignore you completely after one or two losses (and I'm talking about club matches, where few people are undefeated) and prevent you from training properly for your next fight

(4) Very primitive training - just going through the motions of a typical boxing training rather than being creative in developing your technical/strategic abilities. Also coach's who were just stupid/unknowledgable, and would just train you in their exact style, ignoring different body types/characteristics that determine how you box.

All in all, i stopped boxing about a year and a half ago (due to work) and was left quite frustrated. I love the sport more than anything, but i just feel that i would have done a lot beter than i did had i ever been in a half decent club.
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:55 AM   #43
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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Agree with you. In Russian gyms you do a lot more conditional sparring, working on situations than in western europe/small uk gyms where I did most of my boxing (mind you, I was never at a top club in those countries).

I was quite pissed off when i stopped competing. Main issues I had were:

(1) Lack of matching - I wanted to get frequent bouts, as I'm one of the people who performs beter when he's in the ring a lot, and am a bit stiff, less agressive when Im in the ring rarely. I was lucky when I got 5-6 bouts a year (due to things falling through, coaches falling out and deciding not to match people, paperwork not being returned on time etc.). This was my biggest disapointment given i was always in top shape and ready o take bouts of short notice. given i'd boxed for a while, i should have been in there a lot more.

(2) Infrequent sparring with people my own weight, making me try walk down other heavyweights and being surpirsed! or at times just infrequent sparring leading up to bouts

(3) Coaches who would hang off your nuts when you won, and then ignore you completely after one or two losses (and I'm talking about club matches, where few people are undefeated) and prevent you from training properly for your next fight

(4) Very primitive training - just going through the motions of a typical boxing training rather than being creative in developing your technical/strategic abilities. Also coach's who were just stupid/unknowledgable, and would just train you in their exact style, ignoring different body types/characteristics that determine how you box.

All in all, i stopped boxing about a year and a half ago (due to work) and was left quite frustrated. I love the sport more than anything, but i just feel that i would have done a lot beter than i did had i ever been in a half decent club.


i cant agree with you more actually and trust me things in any club in england are better then what we have in toronto it sucks....

even though i hold my own with national level guys here, i think if i had been coached properly i would have a lot better.

the times i really learned a lot was when i turned for a bit with a russian coach, where we did a lot of techique and the things you mentioned

also with a spainish coach where did a lot of drilling working espically on inside fighting

and i trained for a bit with the hilton's, that was amazing, no wonder so many guys in that family were great fighers.....best training i ever got


but other then that most of the stuff i do has been self taught to a large degree.


your 4 is very point, a lot of coaches here can only teach you to box the way they boxed....that is if they actually give you time of day lol because for some ****ing reason they think you should get anything for your money...
the place i train at now, they teach everyone to box the same....lol
you could 6'1 160 pounds or 5'5 160 pounds they want you do everything the same........and these idiots have balls to talk about how other coaches dont know anything....


good thing some people said they got good training in england or usa etc
because in toronto, you will be hitting the heavy bag doing everything wrong and no one cares....

it's funny i give pointers to some begginers and these guys give me angry looks


one time the youngest coach who is my weight and is preety young, was talking about how i should not interfer with the coaching when i was helping my buddy out....


i invited him to spar, he smiled and said some other time....



like yourself i love boxing more then anything but it's hard to not too feel like your potental has been wasted by these idiots
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:57 AM   #44
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

Definitely strong points in here.

Basically the coach will only be truly interested in those with immediate potential for their knowledge and disregard all else. Leaving most people having around like aimless tools in possibly the cruelest environment for sports training.

I think this definitely hurts the image of the sport to those trying it out, even in sports like soccer and football there are leagues and coaching appropriate for differing skill levels.

Boxing is heading down a very uncertain path, especially with social changes in perspectives of physical violence.
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:35 PM   #45
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Default Re: less and less boxing gyms...why??? here is the reason

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Definitely strong points in here.

Basically the coach will only be truly interested in those with immediate potential for their knowledge and disregard all else. Leaving most people having around like aimless tools in possibly the cruelest environment for sports training.

I think this definitely hurts the image of the sport to those trying it out, even in sports like soccer and football there are leagues and coaching appropriate for differing skill levels.

Boxing is heading down a very uncertain path, especially with social changes in perspectives of physical violence.
That's not always the case. The coach I have now gives almost too much individual attention to each and every boxer whether they are athletic and/or work hard. He treats everyone the same and worries endlessly about how to help the kids that don't pick it up naturally. He's super supportive and positive. He's a real gift to our club.
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