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Old 01-23-2010, 02:03 PM   #16
Boro chris
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Default Re: What are your stick on victories

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I always felt Bowe would have outclassed Lewis had they fought shortly after Bowe won the title.
Bowe had advanced far better as a pro up until that point.
Absolutely. Can't understand why Bowe wasn't desperate for that fight.
Lewis improved a lot though.
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:39 PM   #17
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I am so sure that Joe Louis would dismantle George Foreman that I wish I could get the fight on to shut the Louis crittics on this site up for good.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:22 PM   #18
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I am so sure that Joe Louis would dismantle George Foreman that I wish I could get the fight on to shut the Louis crittics on this site up for good.

Wow. I remember posting with this type of certainty when I first arrived on the board, and you gave me a row

I still think Louis would crush Foreman like a bug.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:30 PM   #19
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Wow. I remember posting with this type of certainty when I first arrived on the board, and you gave me a row
Remember it is just my opinion.

I might just be an idiot.

You seem to be changing avatars faster than underpants.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: What are your stick on victories

I dunno, what if he gets backed up and caught early?.

I might lean towards Joe, but i'd like my sure things against Foreman to have good legs and an ability to reposition themselves that doesn't take half a day.Much as i love Joe, the guy was sloooooow of foot.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:43 PM   #21
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I dunno, what if he gets backed up and caught early?.

I might lean towards Joe, but i'd like my sure things against Foreman to have good legs and an ability to reposition themselves that doesn't take half a day.Much as i love Joe, the guy was sloooooow of foot.
I guess that we all have our hunches , and some fights where we have thought out every possible angle. This is one where I have thought out all the angles and found them for Joe.

Of course if I was any good at predicting the outcome of figfhts I wouldn't need to work for a living, though I did make a tidy sum by taking a picture of Haye and Valuev round work and getting all my colegues to bet on Valuev.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: What are your stick on victories

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Pernell Whitaker would of beat Henry Armstrong, Benny Leonard, Ted "Kid" Lewis, Roberto Duran, Carlos Ortiz, Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather

Marvellous Marvin Hagler would of beat Stanley Ketchel, Mickey Walker, Marcel Cerdan, Dick Tiger, Carlos Monzon, Roy Jones Jr and Bernard Hopkins

A peak Evander Holyfield would of beat Dempsey, Tunney, Tyson and Lewis in there prime

Mike Tyson would of defeated Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney,

Larry Holmes would of beat Dempsey,Tunney, Marciano and Lewis

Sonny Liston would of beat Demsey, Tunney, Marciano, Holmes, Tyson and Lewis

Roberto Duran would of beat Benny Leonard, Armstrong, Ortiz, Chavez, De La Hoya, Trinidad, Mosley and Mayweather

Salvador Sanchez would of beat Willie Pep, Kid Chocolate, Naseem Hamed, Manny Pacquioa
Hagler may have beaten those guys easily, but it is just good management that let him avoid the man who would have retired him 4 years before Leonard did; the multitalented and all time great, but very unlucky Bobbie Czyz!!
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:45 PM   #23
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You seem to be changing avatars faster than underpants.

Can't get settled.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:47 PM   #24
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remember it is just my opinion.

I might just be an idiot.

You seem to be changing avatars faster than underpants.
you guys change your underpants? Showoffs
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:49 PM   #25
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WOW WOW WOW, calm down now Maywether has'nt even beaten the best welterweight of his era let alone any all time great welterweight, Robinson and Leonard would of whupped his ass by Decision and Thomas Hearns Knocks his ass out and Duran and Pryor whup his ass on points and Whitaker would of whup him to. Mayweather is a great fighter and I rate him as the greatest superfeatherweight of all time and I don't believe any welterweight today is going to beat him but he ain't no legend his biggest victory is over a good but faded De La Hoya who Shane Mosley beat easier and more clearly in there first when De La Hoya was at his peak.

I do agree with you about Whitaker beating every lightweight in history but at welterweight I favour Leonard, Robinson and Hearns.
I beg to diffa. I think Arguello was at his best as a junior-lightweight and have no doubt his bodypunches would have allowed him to catch Maywether and record a KO in 15. 15.15,
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:52 PM   #26
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You're right i jumped the gun there. I think Hearns and Robinson may KO them both, but in my opinion its very hard to speculate because of Pea's and Floyd's incredibly effective and unique styles. However i do not believe that Leonard would be able to outbox either of them, and Duran and Pryor would be outclassed and lose wide, unanimous decisions. I'm talking strictly H2H, not resume, but i think in 30 years time when they have their own nostalgia points, mayweather's resume specifically, will look alot better than it does right now. I don't see any other LW-WW hurting these two fighters, or out pointing them.

I'll go ahead right now and lose whatever ESB credibility i may have and talk about Pacquiao. His career isn't over and he's unproven, but i believe he has a better chance at beating Pea or Mayweather than any fighter listed above. I believe he may have the pure speed to out point both fighter on sheer volume of punches. However he is unproven against power punchers that are naturally this weight and right now i would have to favour Hearns and Duran to KO Pacquiao. Pacquiao vs SRL i am undecided on.
His resume will only look better if they plant victories on it that didn't happen against the best fighters. 'Cause he sure didn't fight 'em
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:10 PM   #27
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Default Re: What are your stick on victories

I know some will disagree but id put my money firmly on Hopkins to beat Marvin Hagler. I think Hopkins had the style to frustrate Hagler and win a decision.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: What are your stick on victories

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I have zero doubt that Muhammad Ali would beat Tyson. I'm often a little mystified by how some people think Tyson would win.

Even in his prime Tyson could often be lazy when it came to fighting nose to nose, and would often just let fighters tie him up rather than trying to work inside or break free. Ali's favorite strategy for fighters swarming him? Dance, but tie them up when they get close, and Ali was a very effective wrestler with things like leaning on the other guy to wear him down, holding behind the head, pushing the neck down, etc.

So Tyson is not going to beat Ali by roughing him up on the inside ala Frazier. And I don't think I need to go into why he's not going to beat Ali on the outside. That leaves the only hope as mid range, and he has to charge into and past Ali's long jabs and rights while keeping up with and cutting off the ring on the fastest heavyweight in history.

When you add in the major stamina edge for Ali, the fact that Ali was never KO'd and the heart he showed in his mid and late career, to me it becomes pretty obvious that Ali would survive the early Tyson assault, take him into deep waters, turn on the heat late as Tyson loses his explosiveness, and take a decision or earn a late KO as he did with the iron jawed Bonavena. Tyson's best chance is trying to catch Ali cold and unready early.
Tyson doesn't need to fight Ali on the inside, he's an exclusively mid-ranged destroyer. Ali doesn't jab hard enough to discourage tyson, nor will his jab land enough against tyson's weave to really bust him up or discourage him.

Major Stamina edge? Tyson was a 15 round fighter in a 12 round era, stop confusing 1987-1989 tyson with 1997 tyson. Bonavena is nowhere near the same class of fighter as Tyson, nor was his jaw as good, and forget it on the defense comparison.

The simple fact remains, Tyson moves forward faster than Ali moves backward.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: What are your stick on victories

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Major Stamina edge? Tyson was a 15 round fighter in a 12 round era, stop confusing 1987-1989 tyson with 1997 tyson.
... dude, even Kevin Rooney, while he was training Tyson, said that Tyson wasn't the same fighter after 6 rounds.

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Bonavena is nowhere near the same class of fighter as Tyson, nor was his jaw as good, and forget it on the defense comparison.
Of course Bonavena isn't as good all around as Tyson. Where did I say that? However it's definitely my opinion that Bonavena's jaw was significantly better. Bonavena went the distance with a lot of guys with real heavy firepower and yet the only time he was KO'd was by Ali, in the 15th round. He was taking on guys who were far better punchers than Tyson was facing between 86-89, with less defense than Tyson had, and was eating it all up. And he did that over his entire career.

By the way, Ali was better than Douglas and Holyfield, He also had a better jaw than Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith, Mitch Green or Quick Tillis. Let me know when Tyson KO'd any of those four guys.

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The simple fact remains, Tyson moves forward faster than Ali moves backward.
Maybe. But moving forward doesn't mean being successful. And between having to try to hunt down Ali and getting his offense stifled when he gets anywhere close, I don't think Tyson has a chance of being effective enough with his offense to tip the fight in his favor.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:40 PM   #30
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Default Re: What are your stick on victories

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... dude, even Kevin Rooney, while he was training Tyson, said that Tyson wasn't the same fighter after 6 rounds.



Of course Bonavena isn't as good all around as Tyson. Where did I say that? However it's definitely my opinion that Bonavena's jaw was significantly better. Bonavena went the distance with a lot of guys with real heavy firepower and yet the only time he was KO'd was by Ali, in the 15th round. He was taking on guys who were far better punchers than Tyson was facing between 86-89, with less defense than Tyson had, and was eating it all up. And he did that over his entire career.

By the way, Ali was better than Douglas and Holyfield, He also had a better jaw than Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith, Mitch Green or Quick Tillis. Let me know when Tyson KO'd any of those four guys.



Maybe. But moving forward doesn't mean being successful. And between having to try to hunt down Ali and getting his offense stifled when he gets anywhere close, I don't think Tyson has a chance of being effective enough with his offense to tip the fight in his favor.
uh, no he didn't. source that statement.

and if you really think bonavena had a better chin than tyson, you're nothing more than a delusional nutjob and my words will be wasted because you can't look at the 70's without rose colored glasses.
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