Marvelous Marvin Hagler appreciation thread

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Why does Hagler need an 'appreciation thread', when he is the most overrated, best supported fighters on this board. Bearing in mind, he was basically a good all-rounder. But nothing particularly strong (neither a great boxer, nor a great pressure fighter) in any style.

There isnt a day goes by when there isnt a thread regarding Hagler


edit: One more thing, how did he get on against the best fighter he fought?

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Robbi

I don't want anything. You happened to say "Hagler knew Duran was good at 160lbs". That was your reponse after my post about Hagler's lacklusture display against a former lightweight. You said Hagler fought cautiously and should have forced the fight more, but he knew Duran was good at 160lbs.

My question to you. How did Hagler know Duran was good at 160lbs, when he previously never fought at the weight?.

Nobody knew how De La Hoya would perform against Sturm, and nobody knew how Mayweather would perform against De La Hoya. Nobody knew how Leonard would perform against Hagler.

The Barkley fight happened years after the Hagler fight, so did Hagler look into the future?

I simply meant, that now in 2007, when we look back on boxing history and how competive Duran could have been at 160 lbs even at a high age, we know that Hagler did everything right, and his win is a good one. That´s why I said to you you can´t compare Hopkins win over DLH (who lost normally against Sturm, who is worse than Barkley) with Hagler´s win over Duran...

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

Whats wrong with putting michael nunn in a top 10 middleweight ranking? He beat tate, roldan and barkley at 160, 3 very good fighters. He knocked out kalambay in 1 fuckin round and he beat the two best welterweights of the era, starling and curry. Even before his title run began, he beat about 4-5 ranked middleweights. He accomplished more at 160 then fighters like nino benvenuti and even stanley ketchel for that matter. Ketchel's top win is against jack o brien and that was NOT at middleweight. Rodrigo Valdez is another guy that is usually top10-15 at 160 and Nunn has the better title run too.

Lou Bogash never beat mctigue, his win over flowers was at 175 and he lost 3 times to him. Walker and Loughran were green when he beat them, its not like he fought the prime versions.

Informate completely before you post. You know why he fought Tiger Flowers that often? Becaue after his win against him, he was robbed (he floored him 2 or 3 times also), that´s why he got another chance. In their 3rd fight he was completely shot, I have fight reports from some of their fights, and after the 2nd Bogash was really completely shot, Loughran and Walker were both near peak, both had over 30 fights at that point, that´s not green. Bogash was at least three times better than a protected fighter than Nunn. Fighters like Yarosz, Gorilla Jones, Thil, Cerdan, Benvenuti, O´Dowd, etc. were also much better than Nunn, sorry to say that, but you seem to be very biased. And you criticize me because I probably don´t have Hopkins in my Top 10 ATG at MW, don´t forget, at 160 lbs there´s a deep and talented- rich era...

[brownpimp88]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

Informate completely before you post. You know why he fought Tiger Flowers that often? Becaue after his win against him, he was robbed (he floored him 2 or 3 times also), that´s why he got another chance. In their 3rd fight he was completely shot, I have fight reports from some of their fights, and after the 2nd Bogash was really completely shot, Loughran and Walker were both near peak, both had over 30 fights at that point, that´s not green. Bogash was at least three times better than a protected fighter than Nunn. Fighters like Yarosz, Gorilla Jones, Thil, Cerdan, Benvenuti, O´Dowd, etc. were also much better than Nunn, sorry to say that, but you seem to be very biased. And you criticize me because I probably don´t have Hopkins in my Top 10 ATG at MW, don´t forget, at 160 lbs there´s a deep and talented- rich era...

Who did walker and loughran beat prior to fighting bogash, o yeah nobody. Nunn was far more talented than all of those fighters you just listed, old school nuthuggery at its finest. Nunn accomplished more at middleweight than benvenuti did, god stop showing bias towards italian fighters. Not only is nunn more talented than nino, hes much bigger and faster, he would have kicked his ass with relative ease.

[dmille]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

Cuz he is considered hagler's best win and leonard only had 1 fight there.

It might be considered his best fight, but his best win?

Ever see Hagler's late stoppages of Monroe and Colbert? Or his crushing of Seales, Watts and Minter?

Middleweights have always defended against moving up welters, so that criticism doesn't fly against anyone.

Reasons to appreciate Hagler?

Hagler became the legit number one contender in 1977. He was being throughly out boxed by the unbeaten Mike Colbert, until he landed the bomb that broke his jaw.

It took him two years to get his shot. Valdez should have been losing his belt to Marvleous in early 78.

Corro, Minter and Antuofermo should have only been challengers who lost and the number of defense would have been closer to 18 instead of 12.

You can forget the revisionist history surrounding that draw with Antuofermo. Marvin was flat out robbed. 10-5 was being generous to Vito. Then he had to wait almost another year.

Many are talking about the Hearns fight. Let's not forget that Hagler's face was ripped to shreds. Tommy opened up 60+ fights worth of scar tissue in less than 3 minutes. The ref had already called up the doctor to take a look. Marvin was minutes from being stopped himself when he landed those three monster shots.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

Who did walker and loughran beat prior to fighting bogash, o yeah nobody. Nunn was far more talented than all of those fighters you just listed, old school nuthuggery at its finest. Nunn accomplished more at middleweight than benvenuti did, god stop showing bias towards italian fighters. Not only is nunn more talented than nino, hes much bigger and faster, he would have kicked his ass with relative ease.

What´s that for a shit? Shall I say Nunn is better than Benvenuti legacy-wise (and head-to-head) although it isn´t so, only because I´m Italian? I could also say you just say Nunn is better because you´re black...


nothing new on this forum, when somebody doesn´t know anymore how he can answer, he use this tactic ("You´re a hater!" or "You just say that because you´re from that country!", etc.), find something better, kiddie...

[brownpimp88]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

What´s that for a shit? Shall I say Nunn is better than Benvenuti legacy-wise (and head-to-head) although it isn´t so, only because I´m Italian? I could also say you just say Nunn is better because you´re black...


nothing new on this forum, when somebody doesn´t know anymore how he can answer, he use this tactic ("You´re a hater!" or "You just say that because you´re from that country!", etc.), find something better, kiddie...

I'm not black and legacy wise nunn beat the better fighters too. All of ninos top wins are blown up welterweights, he never beat a legit middleweight like kalambay, barkely or tate, not even close. Nunn has more skill, hes bigger and hes taller, only way nino would win is by ko and stopping nunn isnt exactly that easy to do. Nunn would box his ears off and put a paintjob on him.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

I'm not black and legacy wise nunn beat the better fighters too. All of ninos top wins are blown up welterweights, he never beat a legit middleweight like kalambay, barkely or tate, not even close. Nunn has more skill, hes bigger and hes taller, only way nino would win is by ko and stopping nunn isnt exactly that easy to do. Nunn would box his ears off and put a paintjob on him.

Benvenuti beat fighters like Mazzinghi, Griffith, Rodriguez, etc....


create a thread and ask who wins, some posters like you, Clay II, Groove, etc. pick perhaps Nunn, but the good posters will pick Nino...

[brownpimp88]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

Benvenuti beat fighters like Mazzinghi, Griffith, Rodriguez, etc....


create a thread and ask who wins, some posters like you, Clay II, Groove, etc. pick perhaps Nunn, but the good posters will pick Nino...

2 blown up welterweights and a junior middleweight. Tell me, how would nino win this fight, hes the less talented fighter, hes the smaller fighter, hes the slower fighter.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

2 blown up welterweights and a junior middleweight. Tell me, how would nino win this fight, hes the less talented fighter, hes the smaller fighter, hes the slower fighter.

But Griffith for example won more at 160 lbs than Nunn ever, that alone should answer your stupid question...

[brownpimp88]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

But Griffith for example won more at 160 lbs than Nunn ever, that alone should answer your stupid question...

How the fuck is it a stupid question you moron. Tate, Roldan, Kalambay, Barkley, Curry, Starling. That is a much better title run that beating griffith, bums like scott and bethea, rodriguez and don fullmer. Like i said before, tell me how the fuck nino would win the fight?

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Agreed to an extent. Hagler was brilliant versatile fighting machine, and was without question of the best of the 80's. Its up for arguement that he was the best fighter of that decade.

Many people tend to go with Leonard, based on the factual evidence that he beat Hearns, Duran, and Hagler. Especially since he had one fight in five years before before sharing a ring with Hagler. Nobody thought Leonard would last 12 rounds, never mind winning a controversial decision. All the Hagler fans would have been licking their lips before the first bell rang, expecting an easy nights work. The excuses poured out after Leonard won.

Hagler's status as a true middleweight great was always in question until he beat Hearns. Minter, Obel, Hamsho, Sibson, Roldan, etc. All very good middleweights, nothing more. The Duran performance was hardly convincing, especially as Duran was a natural lightweight. Not the perfomance of a middleweight legend, far from it.

Correction Robbi. That doesn't apply to me. I saw Hagler in sparring which I told you in the PM earlier. In the sparring he showed no life and something looked drastically wrong with him. He was matched up with the Weaver tripplets, three guys I never heard of wo were used to prepare Hagler for the speedy opponent. and Hagler couldn't cope with the speed of the tripplets so what does that tell you? Is it any wonder why leonard did as well as he did? And since I am wise to what happend, I hesitate to put leonard at the top as so many people want me to do-which I won't.

[dmille]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

How the fuck is it a stupid question you moron. Tate, Roldan, Kalambay, Barkley, Curry, Starling. That is a much better title run that beating griffith, bums like scott and bethea, rodriguez and don fullmer. Like i said before, tell me how the fuck nino would win the fight?

Are you really calling former world welterweight champion Luis Rodriguez, a bum?

[brownpimp88]

Originally Posted by dmille

Are you really calling former world welterweight champion Luis Rodriguez, a bum?

no i called scott and betha bums. Nunn has a better resume than benventui anyways. When nunn was champ, he was top 5 p4p. Nino was never at any point in his career given that type of praise becuase he was never that great and he isnt an ATG.

[dmille]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

no i called scott and betha bums. Nunn has a better resume than benventui anyways. When nunn was champ, he was top 5 p4p. Nino was never at any point in his career given that type of praise because he was never that great and he isn't an ATG.

You are making two separate points here.

One is that IYO Nino Benvenuti was not an ATG. I agree.

The other is that IYO Michael Nunn is one of the top 10 middleweights of all-time. I disagree. IMO Nunn is not even one of the top 25.

Ability is only part of the quotient. Heart and chin count too.

Nunn fought one proven great fighter. He was knocked out.