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Old 10-07-2007, 12:30 PM   #346
rydersonthestorm
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

You can't read can you seamus, if somebody had the same tchnique as green but was half a foot taller they would be faster as they have longer legs that is a fact.
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Old 10-07-2007, 12:41 PM   #347
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotti_killer
You can't read can you seamus, if somebody had the same tchnique as green but was half a foot taller they would be faster as they have longer legs that is a fact.
This is hard to say with certainty. I use to be a very fast runner, and I'm rather short 5'7". But what made me naturally fast was I have a lot of fast twitch muscles, I have big legs. If I were taller I might have less of this muscle group and it may make me slower. Ever notice that most of the long distance runners have skinny legs, relative to sprinters?
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Old 10-07-2007, 12:51 PM   #348
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

That is my point though thats why he can't read, if somebody had equal muscle for the size and technique they would be faster if they where taller. This doesn't happen because in general people are not built like this, but if you had the equivalent muscle etc and where 6'3 whould you not be faster?
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:24 PM   #349
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Originally Posted by hotti_killer
You can't read can you seamus, if somebody had the same tchnique as green but was half a foot taller they would be faster as they have longer legs that is a fact.
Maybe you should consider that longer limbs and i.e. longer muscles do not contract with the same explosion as shorter muscles. Also, maybe should consider that any athletic endeavor whether it be sprinting or throwing a punch can not be isolated to one muscle group or limb, that the torso, shoulders, arms and even neck muscles come into play as a whole. What you are purporting is patently false, as the exception rather than the norm in sprinting is taller athletes. I have listed numerous world champions and world record holders to support this and all you have to offer is a schoolyard retort. I spent a good decade at a national level of athletics competition, trained with one of the best sprint/jumping coaches in the US at the time. I know what I'm talking about in this matter.
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:39 PM   #350
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

You still can't read can you, i am not talking about what does happen we are talking in theory, just as you can't say about marciano as he is dead and has never had anything tested etc. If you stretched green to 6'3 but his muscle and technique where expanded in proportion to his height would he or would he not be faster????????????
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:40 PM   #351
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Originally Posted by hotti_killer
You can't read can you seamus, if somebody had the same tchnique as green but was half a foot taller they would be faster as they have longer legs that is a fact.
No it isn't. I was just watching the film of the 4 x 100 meter relay in the 1936 Olympics. Jesse Owens was of average, or perhaps below average height compared to the other runners. He passed the baton to Ralph Metcalfe who was perceptively taller and heavier (Metcalfe was 26). Slowing the film to super slow motion, it did not appear that Owens necessarily had a longer stride. But it was clear that his rapidity of stride was greater. He ran faster because he moved his legs faster.

Metcalfe on film certainly seems to have a longer stride than Owens, but he lost in the 100 in 1936 to Owens and was defeated in a photo finish by the 5' 4" Eddie Tolan in 1932.

By the way, Owens was never close enough to the camera to get a great look at his musculature, but Frank Wycoff, the American who ran the last lap was certainly a heavily muscled man.

Last edited by OLD FOGEY; 10-07-2007 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:47 PM   #352
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Again learn how to read you are posting about something that i have not said, this is theory not fact, i have already said it doesn't work in practise as nobody is built like this. However if you get a guy such as green and stretch him to 6'3 and proportion his muscle etc equally and give him the same technique the 6'3 guy will be faster.
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:53 PM   #353
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotti_killer
That is my point though thats why he can't read, if somebody had equal muscle for the size and technique they would be faster if they where taller. This doesn't happen because in general people are not built like this, but if you had the equivalent muscle etc and where 6'3 whould you not be faster?
If your rapidity of stride is the same, but it might not be. You are also overlooking the most important muscle of all--the heart. I am not talking metaphorically here. I mean the literal size of your heart compared to the body it has to drive. The great American racehorse, Secretariat, was autopsied after he died, and his heart turned out to be more than twice as big as an ordinary horse of the same size. This happens in humans also, and there is no way of telling on someone like Owens how big his heart was in comparision to his body, but if it was
disproportionate, and could thus do a better job of pumping oxygen to his other muscles, he could potentially outrun anyone.

By the way, as the body gets bigger, even if in top shape, the heart is likely to be relatively smaller in comparision to the rest of the body, hence the big man's disease of poorer stamina. This is absolutely a critical factor in boxing and perhaps explains what seems to be unexplainable--why really big men have not performed that well historically in spite of all the advantages size seems to confer. The huge muscle mass does not mean much if the muscles are not fed enough oxygen.
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:56 PM   #354
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

The stride would be the same as they have the same technique, i agree that in reality this doesn't happen but in theory what i am saying is correct.
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Old 10-07-2007, 02:04 PM   #355
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

"Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Punching is simple science

Power = Muscle/Bones Weight*Leaverage*Acceleration*Strength

Weight - mass behind the punch

Leverage of Weight - is the amount of body power you can generate aswell as body size.

Acceleration - punch speed

The answers pretty obvious - Lennox Lewis because Marciano doesn't beat him on any category
"

I hope you just mean this as a qualitative sort of explaination and not as an actual physics/dynamics equation.

I agree Lewis hit harder than Marciano, no doubt. Marciano may have on average thrown harder shots each punch than Lewis who would use a lot of jabs. But if Lewis is loading up and throwing with KO intent, theres no way Marciano's KO punch is harder.

Im just pointint out that those arent accurate physics equations.
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Old 10-07-2007, 02:16 PM   #356
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by elTerrible
"Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Punching is simple science

Power = Muscle/Bones Weight*Leaverage*Acceleration*Strength

Weight - mass behind the punch

Leverage of Weight - is the amount of body power you can generate aswell as body size.

Acceleration - punch speed

The answers pretty obvious - Lennox Lewis because Marciano doesn't beat him on any category
"

I hope you just mean this as a qualitative sort of explaination and not as an actual physics/dynamics equation.

I agree Lewis hit harder than Marciano, no doubt. Marciano may have on average thrown harder shots each punch than Lewis who would use a lot of jabs. But if Lewis is loading up and throwing with KO intent, theres no way Marciano's KO punch is harder.

Im just pointint out that those arent accurate physics equations.
No I know they aren't the physics equation its more to qualify how the power (speed/mass transition) is generated

If you just say - speed*mass = power - everyone here will say - what about strength, leverage, etc etc - which is true because to get maximal mass behind a punch you need maximal leverage. And then you need to generate the maximal force too
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Old 10-07-2007, 04:08 PM   #357
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotti_killer
You still can't read can you, i am not talking about what does happen we are talking in theory, just as you can't say about marciano as he is dead and has never had anything tested etc. If you stretched green to 6'3 but his muscle and technique where expanded in proportion to his height would he or would he not be faster????????????

No. You are still wrong. Strength and explosion are not neccasarily proportionate to muscle mass or length, thus if you "stretched" Mo Greene he most likely would not retain the elasticity of his muscle or the potential power. The parts of the body (muscles, bone, ligament, tendon) each have their own envelopes (of length and mass) wherein they work most efficiently. To go over those limits inhibits explosion and strength.
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Old 10-07-2007, 04:20 PM   #358
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

He would retain the elasticity because we are talking in theory, so therefore if his muscle mass and elasticity where expanded in equivalence with his height he would be the same but have a longer stride, i am not saying that if your taller or bigger you are faster i am aying that if somebody is identical to greene and then expanded to 6'3 he will be faster as he has longer limbs and will take less strides. , you really need to read what i write before you comment.
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Old 10-07-2007, 06:14 PM   #359
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

I don't know if I have ever been so frustrated reading someones posts.

For the last time, the 7 foot guy with the same talent, and same proportions, would NOT be faster than the 6 foot guy.

Reason: Muscle force scales with the square of the linear dimension, while muscle mass scales with the cube of the linear dimension.

This means that the 7 foot guy would have legs that are absolutely stronger (because the muscle cross section is wider) but his strength/weight ratio would actually be WORSE!!!

I am sorry this dashes your world view, but the beauty of these forums is that they are an opportunity to LEARN something every now and then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotti_killer
You can't read can you seamus, if somebody had the same tchnique as green but was half a foot taller they would be faster as they have longer legs that is a fact.
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Old 10-07-2007, 06:29 PM   #360
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

There are advancements in equipment but one gets the sense that the athletes themselves may be superior. Advancements in training and nutrition as well as use of performance enhancing drugs might give more recent athletes an advantage.
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