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Old 10-04-2007, 05:22 PM   #106
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Originally Posted by hotti_killer
Also if you use the gloves as another point in mma were they user smaller gloves a knockout is quite likely even though they are allowed to grapple as well, boxing gloves are known to cushion blows and thats why people complain about brain damage etc. The gloves marciano used where alot lighter and smaller, put lewis in the same gloves and does he have faster ko's ?
Yes. But the bigger question is to what degree each represents the absolute peak of his weight class, and to what degree the weight classes differ.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:23 PM   #107
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Marciano biggest guys where equivalent to lewis's smallest guys, it is harder to knock out a bigger man this again is a fact. MIke tyson when slow and old couldn't dent brian mcbride or danny willimas despite hitting them with some big shots. If tyson had hit a much smaller guy with equal talent to either of those guys they would be koed, do you agree ?
Prove that it is harder to knock out bigger men. You say it is a fact but produce evidence. Did Dempsey have more trouble knocking out big men? Did Louis? Obviously, off the evidence I gave in the first post, Marciano did not have difficulty with big men?
I know this is true among lighter weights, but we are talking about big punchers over 180 lbs.

And what difference does Tyson make with Williams and McBride? He was old and quite possibly totally washed up. I think better evidence would be that a younger Tyson could not knock out Holyfield or Tillis.

Last edited by OLD FOGEY; 10-04-2007 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:23 PM   #108
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Danny williams is a big guy, have you never seen him he weigh upto 270 pounds and is 6'2, that is hardly a small guy in my book. Also alot of people don't know what the word big means it is different than tall, big means has alot of mass not that he is tall.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:25 PM   #109
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Marcinao never knocked out big men that's the whole point fogey you used marciano biggest guys against lewis's smallest so therefore what big guys did marciano ko.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:26 PM   #110
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Danny williams is a big guy, have you never seen him he weigh upto 270 pounds and is 6'2, that is hardly a small guy in my book. Also alot of people don't know what the word big means it is different than tall, big means has alot of mass not that he is tall.
That's true, but Williams is at his best at considerably under the 270 pound mark. At 6'1 1/2", he would probably be better at a lower weight, and simply doesn't train very hard.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:27 PM   #111
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Marcinao never knocked out big men that's the whole point fogey you used marciano biggest guys against lewis's smallest so therefore what big guys did marciano ko.
Agreed.

Perhaps we should use somebody like Dempsey, who fought a wide range of larger and smaller opponents--and who everybody agrees represents the absolute peak power a guy of 185 lbs. can be.

Last edited by RipRabbo; 07-18-2006 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:27 PM   #112
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

He couldn't make a lower weight he is a big guy, i am about te same height as williams and weight 190 pounds and am big compared to an average man, he may have been fat but i doubt he could come in weighing less than 230 which is still very big compared to 99% of the guys marciano fought.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:30 PM   #113
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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He couldn't make a lower weight he is a big guy, i am about te same height as williams and weight 190 pounds and am big compared to an average man, he may have been fat but i doubt he could come in weighing less than 230 which is still very big compared to 99% of the guys marciano fought.
That is one area where we have less information. We have pretty good evidence of power generation at various weights, but chins are a little trickier to calculate.

It's fair to say, though, that a guy who can take punches from top 217 lb. men (like Ali or Chuvalo) wouldn't have any more trouble with top 237 lb. men. Beyond that, it gets more difficult.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:32 PM   #114
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Marcinao never knocked out big men that's the whole point fogey you used marciano biggest guys against lewis's smallest so therefore what big guys did marciano ko.
A 215 pound man is a 215 pound man. Marciano came in an era of much smaller fighters, so I normalized by using the same sized men. I didn't want to pick and choose. You do seem to want to avoid the issue of why the much bigger Lewis did not run up a similar or better record against men 192 to 215 lbs.

By the way, Marciano has at least as high a knockout percentage against anyone over 200 lb as he knocked them all out.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:34 PM   #115
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Fogey's methods aren't that bad, when you consider that he chose equally bad / equally good opponents (of equal size) for both men.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:36 PM   #116
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

I can't understand how some of you don't think it is harder to knock out a bigger man, i knw you can't measure chin 100% but the fighters that tend to have the best chin's at heavyweight are thick necked and muscular in the sholders and back, so therefore s maller guy with a thinner neck and less muscle in those area's should be easier to ko. There are exception in every case but you have to look at the general not just the odd one o two.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:39 PM   #117
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Agreed.

Perhaps we should use somebody like Dempsey, who fought a wide range of larger and smaller opponents--and who everybody agrees represents the absolute peak power a guy of 185 lbs. can be.
Neither of these points is true. Dempsey only knocked out one capable really large fighter, the 37 year old, long laid off, and rusty Willard. His next big men are Morris at 220 and Firpo at 216. Tony Drake was 257, but his fight with Dempsey is the only one listed on his record so he was just cannon fodder, perhaps similar to Jackson with Marciano, but Marciano fought Jackson when both were tyros.

I disagree strongly that there is any compelling evidence that Dempsey punched harder than Marciano.

That said, please use Dempsey if you feel it will add another perspective.

Last edited by Jaimie; 07-18-2006 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:39 PM   #118
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Originally Posted by hotti_killer
I can't understand how some of you don't think it is harder to knock out a bigger man, i knw you can't measure chin 100% but the fighters that tend to have the best chin's at heavyweight are thick necked and muscular in the sholders and back, so therefore s maller guy with a thinner neck and less muscle in those area's should be easier to ko. There are exception in every case but you have to look at the general not just the odd one o two.
My position is that it's a combination of size and neurological makeup (how easily your brain gets switched "off" when it's hit). Big guys are probably a little harder to KO, but the difference isn't enormous.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:40 PM   #119
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

Your the one thats avoiding the issue you say you have not picked and chosen fight's but thats bull. You have alot of fighter's on the lewis side who he fought when he was pretty much a novice, you try and compare lewis fighting holyfield to mariciano fighting louis. Holyfield was two years older than a 35 year old lewis, marciano was 9 years younger at 28 then louis. Also marciano is well renowned as a slugger and a brawler, rather than a boxer/puncher like lewis. Just becuase marciano had to brawl men and go for the ko all the time doesn't make him a better puncher, what it means is that he didn't have the size or boxing ability to stay back and not put himself at risk while boxing and picking his shots, unlike lewis who's style this was.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:41 PM   #120
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Default Re: Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

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Marciano is well both ahead of both Lewis and Dempsey on knockout percentages no matter how you cut it--champions, contenders, men over 200 lbs, etc.
The knockouts of Layne, Louis, Matthews, and Walcott look plenty explosive to me.
Marciano needed about 1000 punches to KO his man, Lewis needed 1 or 2 - there in lies the difference. Marciano went for the KO everytime, Lewis just took his foot off the gas and jabbed when he saw he could get away with it and when the opponent wasnt a threat
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