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Old 10-04-2007, 04:41 PM   #106
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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Socialism has never worked in Europe. Even in the Norse countries, it has been considerably limited and based upon capitalism. And why would it lead to Utopia, when the flaws we already discussed are still present in humanity?
My idea of a eutopia would need a big drive to the left of politics IMO. To make this move first true Marxism has to defeat Free Enterprise and Neo Conservatism, thus Foot would of been a big step in the right direction compard to Thatcher.
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:53 PM   #107
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My idea of a eutopia would need a big drive to the left of politics IMO.
Free trade is as much a leftist idea as socialism, but in any event, why do you believe your socialist utopia would work if people are incapable of behaving in the manner it requires?
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:56 PM   #108
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I do not agree with what Argentina did, but I also cannot understand how the Falklands can belong to Britain in this day and age.
Nomatter how you look at it the Argentine Junta at the time invaded British sovereign territory and British citizens were under occupation. We had to got to war to liberate our citizens and the islands, nomatter the distance from the British Isles. If the population of the Falklands sees itself as British and wants to remain part of the UK then we will defend them. Nomatter what. The Falklands was a ''just'' war.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:02 PM   #109
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Free trade is as much a leftist idea as socialism, but in any event, why do you believe your socialist utopia would work if people are incapable of behaving in the manner it requires?
It cannot work at the moment, that has been shown, but by progessively moving to the left, perhaps humans can evolve to make it work and in due course have the Eutopia I want.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:05 PM   #110
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It cannot work at the moment, that has been shown, but by progessively moving to the left, perhaps humans can evolve to make it work and in due course have the Eutopia I want.
Do you believe humans are biologically/genetically unable to achieve socialism, or simply socially unable?
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:07 PM   #111
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Nomatter how you look at it the Argentine Junta at the time invaded British sovereign territory and British citizens were under occupation. We had to got to war to liberate our citizens and the islands, nomatter the distance from the British Isles. If the population of the Falklands sees itself as British and wants to remain part of the UK then we will defend them. Nomatter what. The Falklands was a ''just'' war.
We did not have to go to war, Thatcher choose to go, if Foot was in power at the time, I think the odds are we would not of gone to war, even Thatchers goverment had grave concerns, and she was darn lucky to get her win as well, many British sailors were sacrificed to gain that win and many more were scarred for life. All in pursuit of an Island that I suspect at least 50% of adult Britains did not even know where it was in 1982.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:28 PM   #112
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We did not have to go to war, Thatcher choose to go, if Foot was in power at the time, I think the odds are we would not of gone to war, even Thatchers goverment had grave concerns, and she was darn lucky to get her win as well, many British sailors were sacrificed to gain that win and many more were scarred for life. All in pursuit of an Island that I suspect at least 50% of adult Britains did not even know where it was in 1982.
I bet 50% of the population didn't know where Belgium was in 1914 or Poland was during 1939. Public IQ doesn't determine if a war was just or not. Nomatter how you cut it British territory was invaded and British citizens were under occupation. The Argentine Junta wasn't just going to hand them over without a fight. Geography had nothing to do with it. We had to go to war and IMO Thatcher made the right choice in sending the Task Force.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:33 PM   #113
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

How did this thread get all political?


James Butler.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:38 PM   #114
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How did this thread get all political?


James Butler.
because Kurgan cited political reasons for choosing Ali for this category.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:39 PM   #115
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I bet 50% of the population didn't know where Belgium was in 1914 or Poland was during 1939. Public IQ doesn't determine if a war was just or not. Nomatter how you cut it British territory was invaded and British citizens were under occupation. The Argentine Junta wasn't just going to hand them over without a fight. Geography had nothing to do with it. We had to go to war and IMO Thatcher made the right choice in sending the Task Force.
It still was a very tough call for the most right wing post World WarII goverment we have had; hence there was little chance Foot would of taken us to war. There comes a point where IMO you have to let the past go, that would of been an opportunity to do it, take the high road, and show up the Argentine Junta for what it was, the Falkland Islanders who did not want to live under Argentine rule could of come to Britain. It would of saved hundreds of British lives.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:50 PM   #116
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

In the ring it is without doubt butler, the most disgraceful and cowardly act i have ever witnessed in a boxing ring.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:01 PM   #117
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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I do not think with our history we can be to preachy about self determination of nations, at least wait until the generation that remembers our Empire are no more.
So it's because of OUR history that we don't have right to self-determination as Brits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze
The economy was not working in 82/83; Foot would of got in if it were not for the Falklands IMO, and although a man with a massive flaws in communiaction, he had enough talent in his potential cabinet to give Britain the great Socialist drive it would of benefitted from, a drive that could led to a eutopia that I want.
"I promise you the joys of a socialist utopia!"

"We need more... More... Energy, and investment!"

The Labour party resembled the old vision of Britain: high inflation, terrible products, controlled by undemocratic unions, and no opportunities for the young. By 1983, Thatcher was turning that story on its head, and by 1984, the empire was back economically as well as militarily.

At any rate, one can hardly say the Falklands war was a design of Thatcher's, considering she cut back on the south sea navy (hospitals and schools came above weapons in Maggie's book). If she was guilty of any crime, it was having the will to defend Britain, which is no crime in my book.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:03 PM   #118
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

This thread is gay.

Someone post that clip of Tyson decking Holmes.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:03 PM   #119
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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It still was a very tough call for the most right wing post World WarII goverment we have had; hence there was little chance Foot would of taken us to war. There comes a point where IMO you have to let the past go, that would of been an opportunity to do it, take the high road, and show up the Argentine Junta for what it was, the Falkland Islanders who did not want to live under Argentine rule could of come to Britain. It would of saved hundreds of British lives.
But the islanders didn't want to leave their home or live under occupation. And why should they be forced to choose between living under dictatorship or being a refugee. They are British citizens, nomatter the geography. One of the key resposibilities of goverment is to ensure the safety and security of it's citizens and territories with lethal force if need be. Our territory was invaded, fact. And our citizens were under occupation, fact. You don't get more ''just'' than fighting a war to free your lands and people from occupation. Thatcher did the right thing sending the Task Force.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:04 PM   #120
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This thread is gay.

Someone post that clip of Tyson decking Holmes.
Agreed. It's turned into Question Time
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