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Old 06-27-2007, 03:32 PM   #1
McGrain
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Default Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

To his own particular brand of poison?

In defeating Frazier 2/3, did he beat the heavyweight who, in the history of the entire division, was the most difficult for him stylisticly?

If so, is this an even greater achievment than his composite resume (Excluding Frazier)? I mean, does he deserve more credit for pulling this of than for beating the other top fighters he met?
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

The antidote in the second fight was holding a lot and having a lenient ref that would allow such tactics.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
The antidote in the second fight was holding a lot and having a lenient ref that would allow such tactics.

Regardless, if he'd defeated the one guy in heavyweight history best equipped to beat him, some achievment.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Regardless, if he'd defeated the one guy in heavyweight history best equipped to beat him, some achievment.

But Frazier was a bit past his best, regardless.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
But Frazier was a bit past his best, regardless.
Ali was also past his best.

Niether could be considered a has been.

And regardless it was the first fight with Ali that really hurt Joe.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

Ali fought a great fight in 1971 and a peak Frazier only just beat him. It's fair to say Ali wasn't quite at his very best.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

In fight two, Ali figured him out big time, it was Frazier's amazing sprit that kept him on his feet in fights two and three.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

Well, McGrain, I have to agree with Conteh and say that both subsequent victories are a bit tainted. I would be curious to know what might have been had Mercante reffed all three fights. I suspect Ali would have had more problems. Mercante wasn't having all that holding and clinching.

Ali had stylistic problems with Norton too.

I suspect that the best antidote for Ali would have been poisoning Eddie Futch. Heh.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

Frazier was difficult stylistically, but Tyson would have been more so - just in regards to your statement that Frazier may have been the most stylistically challenging of all Heavyweights to Ali.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

mcgrain that new avatar pic is the greatest.........liston is the man
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

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mcgrain that new avatar pic is the greatest.........liston is the man

It's a beaut isn't it? It's the best photograph i've ever seen of Liston.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
To his own particular brand of poison?
I am inclined to say no because he never really solved the stylistic problem's posed by Frazier or Norton for that matter.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

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Originally Posted by janitor
I am inclined to say no because he never really solved the stylistic problem's posed by Frazier.

Which is my point really. Popular opinion holds that every fighter has a fighter that poses the greatest threat regardless of how good because of their style. Now Ali is unlucky enough to share an era with the guy who, if he had fought in the fifties, we would all post as being the guy who "would give Ali fits" - he is made to fight Ali. And Ali beat him twice.

You have spoken about Tunney, perhaps, being the one guy you would be keen to steer Louis clear of - imagine he held two wins over Gene.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Which is my point really. Popular opinion holds that every fighter has a fighter that poses the greatest threat regardless of how good because of their style. Now Ali is unlucky enough to share an era with the guy who, if he had fought in the fifties, we would all post as being the guy who "would give Ali fits" - he is made to fight Ali.
Frazier genuinely is one of the hardest possible opponents for Ali from any era. My only criticism is that he did not adapt his style substantialy with each outing.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:59 AM   #15
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Default Re: Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Well, McGrain, I have to agree with Conteh and say that both subsequent victories are a bit tainted. I would be curious to know what might have been had Mercante reffed all three fights. I suspect Ali would have had more problems. Mercante wasn't having all that holding and clinching.

Ali had stylistic problems with Norton too.

I suspect that the best antidote for Ali would have been poisoning Eddie Futch. Heh.
agree with you about norton those two seemed to give ali more problems than anybody else he faced
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