Marciano vs. Tunney

[thunder06]

Who would win this fight and why? This fantasy match up never occured to me until just now and I'm curious to see who you think would win. Both in their respective primes in a 15-round match-up. Here are some stats:

Gene Tunney
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 189 lbs
Reach: 77"
Record: 82-1-3 (48 KOs) 2 No contests
Heavweight Champion: 1926-1928
Notable opponents: Jack Demspey UD10 (twice), Tommy Gibbons, Harry Greb, Georges Carpentier.


Rocky Marciano
Height: 5'10 1/4"
Weight: 185 lbs
Reach: 68"
Record: 49-0-0 (43 KOs)
Heavweight Champion: 1952-1956
Notable Opponents: Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Roland LaStarza.

[rekcutnevets]

Tunney does not make my top 13 heavyweights all time, and that is because of the era he fought in. You still had the best white heavyweight in the world, and the best black heavyweight in the world. Same thing goes for Jack Dempsey. Had Demsey fought and defeated Harry Wills, it would have made both Dempsey and Tunney rate a little higher. It may have been impossible for the fight between Dempsey and Wills to take place, but I can't pretend it did when it didn't.

Style wise, this fight is bad news for Marciano. Marciano would have a chance of getting to Tunney eventually, but I don't know if I believe he would. For some reason, when I read this thread, I thought of Raheem vs. Morales.

Tunney UD.

[jyuza]

I am pretty proud to see Tunney coming back in the classic section.

For the fight I think Marciano is nothing else but a version of Dempsey.
Both used their power to impose themselves in the fight, both had terrific right hand and an inimaginable stamina. They are similar in many points and I can see the fight going the same way went Tunney/Dempsey.

Marciano probably had the edge in stamina due to his freakish love to practice.
So I can see Gene giving up the early rounds to get used to Marciano raw style and find his best distance to land his jabs and his perfect one-two.
Tunney UD with 9-6 or 10-5.

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

Style wise, this fight is bad news for Marciano. Marciano would have a chance of getting to Tunney eventually, but I don't know if I believe he would.

What makes you think that?

Marciano fought some master boxers and tricky, slick types: Walcott twice, Archie Moore, Charles twice, Lastarza twice. He knocked every single one of them out. Unless you have a significant size advantage like Ali or Holmes to go with great skill, i don't think you're gonna beat Marciano by running around the ring.

[rekcutnevets]

Lastarza is famous for losing a disputed decison to Marciono. Saying his style was well suited for Marciono is not a good argument.

Walcott was winning his first fight against Marciano, and Marciono had to ko him to win.

Moore was in his 40s, and was a counter puncher. Moore did not have Tunney's legs. He too was giving Marciano a fight. Charles was no spring chicken either.

You can argue that Tunney's style wouldn't matter, and that Marciano would still find a way to ko him anyway. Saying that a speedy fighter with good legs and boxing ability has a style well suited for Marciano is just crazy talk.

[ChrisPontius]

Lastarza made that first fight a close one because Marciano was still learning on the job. When Marciano was more experienced, he knocked LaStarza out.
What did Tunney do when he had a close one with a green Loughran? He avoided the rematch.

As for Moore giving Marciano a fight..... he won only one or two rounds. He scored a flash knockdown and that's it. Marciano broke him down.

Charles was no spring chicken, but he accomplished a lot more at HW than Tunney did. In fact, Tunney's entire HW career is based on Dempsey who hardly was a spring chicken either.


I also think the comparisons of Marciano with Dempsey are misleading.
First of all, when Dempsey fought those fights against Tunney (over a joke distance of 10 rounds- were they, amatures or something?) he had long since lost that hunger, explosiveness and speed.

Second, Dempsey was more of a (boxer) puncher, who starts very fasts, looks for a way in to wail away and score most of his knockouts before the 6th. This is the kind of fighter that a "boxing" style is well suited to to beat. After suriving the first onslaught, they can go on their job and outbox them for the rest of the fight.
Marciano was more of a wear-you-down fighter, who applies a lot of pressure during the entire fight - not just looking for one big bomb but throwing punches everywhere from weird angles. This is the kind of fighter that a "boxing" type of fighter does NOT want to face, because the boxer never gets a chance to take a rest, room to get his punches off and what not.

I don't doubt that Tunney can run from Marciano for 5 rounds. But could he do it for 10 rounds? 15 rounds? I doubt it.

[achillesthegreat]

Tunney worries me for numerous boxers i.e. Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Jeffries and others.

Doesn't matter when they fight. I suppose I have to put hope in Louis and Marciano doing what Dempsey didn't and that's pulling it out of the hat.

[la-califa]

Tunney was a very gifter boxer, who knew how to move around the ring. But so did Ezzard Charles. Marciano would wear Tunney down & set him up for a VERY long count in a late round stoppage.

[Executioner]

Tunney was good, slick, crafty fighter..but that isn't anything Rocky hasn't seen before. Tunney would outbox him for most of the early rounds but Rocky would keep the pressure on Tunney and when he trapped him along the ropes or corners, Rock would pound him everywhere. Arms, shoulders, hips, forearms, head, body.

Tunney would feel like he's been hit by a transport truck and would have no energy left. Rock pounds him to force a TKO

[Marciano Frazier]

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

Lastarza is famous for losing a disputed decison to Marciono. Saying his style was well suited for Marciono is not a good argument.

Marciano was green when he won the disputed decision over LaStarza. In their rematch, a peak Marciano resoundingly and dominantly battered him into submission.

Walcott was winning his first fight against Marciano, and Marciono had to ko him to win.

And Marciano did KO him and win, in spite of having spent a couple rounds of the fight with severely impaired vision(which is a big part of the reason why he needed a knockout on the scorecards). And he took him out in one round the following Spring.

Moorer was in his 40s, and was a counter puncher. Moorer did not have Tunney's legs. He too was giving Marciano a fight.

Moore's date of birth is disputed, and he himself claimed to have been 38 at the time. That said, it doesn't really matter, because either way, he was in his prime. His performance and results in the years leading up to his fight with Marciano were by far the best of his career.

Charles was no spring chicken either.

No, but he was a future Hall-of-Famer, a former world champion, and the #1 contender for Marciano's title, and in the first fight he put on what many considered one of the best performances of his entire career, but he was still decisively beaten. And in the rematch, Marciano dominated aside from the occurence of a bizarre fluke injury.

You can argue that Tunney's style wouldn't matter, and that Marciano would still find a way to ko him anyway. Saying that a speedy fighter with good legs and boxing ability has a style well suited for Marciano is just crazy talk.

Where did he say that fighters with good legs and boxing ability were "well-suited" for Marciano? As I recall, he just said that Marciano beat all kinds of top boxers and that only someone with a considerable size advantage like a Holmes or Ali could beat Marciano using this mode of fighting. That doesn't mean the style is particularly easy for Marciano to beat- just that he still beats it. Marciano was an incredible fighter.

[ChrisPontius]

I think people are underrating Marciano a bit here.

He's way more proven than Tunney at HW, beat very skilled and tricky boxers into submission, all by KO. Tunney has only the wins over a past his prime Dempsey over 10 rounds. I think that's very little substance to claim he can beat Marciano. Especially when you add to it that a middleweight version of Marciano gave him all he could handle, despite a size advantage which he'd not have against Rocky.

Marciano all the way.

[rekcutnevets]

No one said these weren't good wins. He asked why Tunney would be a nightmare for Marciano. Then he used Lastarza, Charles, and Walcott as examples. These guys didn't fight like Tunney, but I entertained his post anyway. These guys were still able to trouble Marciano. They were all stronger than Tunney, but none of them were as mobile.

If you are saying that Tunney's style would not be bad for Marciano, then are you are saying that saying that a speedy boxer with good legs would be a good style for him? Like I said, you can argue that Marciano could overcome this style. You just can't say,"Wow, this Tunney guy would be tailor made for Rocky," and sound like you are making any sense. Now I'm not quoting either of you guys with that remark, I'm simply saying that Tunney's style isn't a good thing for Rocky.

[rekcutnevets]

Who is underating Marciano? I have him at #5 on my all time list. Tunney is not even in the top 10. I can still have the belief that Tunney would outpoint him.

A 60/40 poll shows that people do have differing opinions on this, and it is not overwhelmingly against me.

[rekcutnevets]

Make that 50/50 at the time of this post.

[janitor]

In all Gene Tunney had 14 fights at heavyweight. The noteworthy ones are-

Charlie Weinert X2
Erminio Spalla
Tommy Gibbons (faded)
Johny Risko
Jack Dempsey X2 (faded)
Tom Heeney

I think he perhaps left a few questions unanswered about his effectivness at heavyweight. Questions that say Jack Sharkey and Max Schmeling answered.