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Old 02-19-2010, 05:24 AM   #1
Unforgiven
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Default Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

In my opinion .........

Overrated :

Sonny Liston (For all his strengths, he wouldn't make my top 10).

Lennox Lewis (I see him being put as high as 3, 4, 5 on many of your lists. I dont buy it. Maybe he could get in at 8 or 9.)

Jack Johnson (maybe he's not as fashionable now as he has been, but he's still a bit overrated. He clutched and smothered his way through bore fests with men who he dwarfed in terms of size and strength and power. That's not a good effort.)

Underrated :

Joe Frazier (gets a bad rap on lists and in head-to-head match-ups. I think he's a lock for the top 10, and is arguably top 5 or 6)

Evander Holyfield (I put him above Tyson, and above Lewis. Many here put him beneath both. He's arguably top 5.)

Riddick Bowe (Maybe not deserving of a high rating particularly, but this fighter gets a lot of disrespect and underestimated by some very dubious reasoning. For example, the Golota fights are seen as damning evidence against him when really they proved exactly how much heart he had left when everything else had deserted him.)

Max Schmeling (for reasons unknown to me he often gets shafted out of even a place in the top 20 of all-time. I think he was better than the likes of Walcott, for starters. He knocked out a prime Joe Louis, among other things.)
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
In my opinion .........

Overrated :

Sonny Liston (For all his strengths, he wouldn't make my top 10).

Lennox Lewis (I see him being put as high as 3, 4, 5 on many of your lists. I dont buy it. Maybe he could get in at 8 or 9.)

Jack Johnson (maybe he's not as fashionable now as he has been, but he's still a bit overrated. He clutched and smothered his way through bore fests with men who he dwarfed in terms of size and strength and power. That's not a good effort.)

Underrated :

Joe Frazier (gets a bad rap on lists and in head-to-head match-ups. I think he's a lock for the top 10, and is arguably top 5 or 6)

Evander Holyfield (I put him above Tyson, and above Lewis. Many here put him beneath both. He's arguably top 5.)

Riddick Bowe (Maybe not deserving of a high rating particularly, but this fighter gets a lot of disrespect and underestimated by some very dubious reasoning. For example, the Golota fights are seen as damning evidence against him when really they proved exactly how much heart he had left when everything else had deserted him.)

Max Schmeling (for reasons unknown to me he often gets shafted out of even a place in the top 20 of all-time. I think he was better than the likes of Walcott, for starters. He knocked out a prime Joe Louis, among other things.)
Good list for the most part

Lewis -is overrated biiiiiiiiig time!!
Liston - im not sure, some overrate him some underrate he just misses my top 10 i think i have him 11.
Dempsey- is like Liston overrated and underrated
Baer- overrated

I dont think Schmeling is underrated however not overrated either about right.


Holyfield- underrated big time
Tyson- underrated on the Classic maybe overrated on the General
Bowe - underrated
80s Heavyweights-Underrated
Bowe- Underrated

Last edited by anarci; 02-19-2010 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

overrated-dempsey, jeffries and marciano
underrated-tyson
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Valuev is a little bit underrated because of his timid spells but he'd never beat Bob Foster. Ever.
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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Valuev is a little bit underrated because of his timid spells but he'd never beat Bob Foster. Ever.
joe is looking good in your avatar
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:50 AM   #6
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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joe is looking good in your avatar
I love this picture of him and Tyson. I don't know where they're at or what they're doing but I think they're saying they're number one.

This one's not bad either:

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Old 02-19-2010, 06:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
In my opinion .........

Overrated :

Sonny Liston (For all his strengths, he wouldn't make my top 10).
I agree. He shouldn't be Top10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Lennox Lewis (I see him being put as high as 3, 4, 5 on many of your lists. I dont buy it. Maybe he could get in at 8 or 9.)

Jack Johnson (maybe he's not as fashionable now as he has been, but he's still a bit overrated. He clutched and smothered his way through bore fests with men who he dwarfed in terms of size and strength and power. That's not a good effort.)
Well I disagree here. Both are Top10 material, both could be argued in the Top5. I can't see any of them in the Top3 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Underrated :

Joe Frazier (gets a bad rap on lists and in head-to-head match-ups. I think he's a lock for the top 10, and is arguably top 5 or 6)

Evander Holyfield (I put him above Tyson, and above Lewis. Many here put him beneath both. He's arguably top 5.)
I agree but Frazier is in nearly everybodys Top10. Holyfield often not though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Riddick Bowe (Maybe not deserving of a high rating particularly, but this fighter gets a lot of disrespect and underestimated by some very dubious reasoning. For example, the Golota fights are seen as damning evidence against him when really they proved exactly how much heart he had left when everything else had deserted him.)
Well, I don think he is underated. There are people who have him in the Top15. I don't think he should be Top20. Not because he is bad but because there are at least 20 hws who did more than Bowe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Max Schmeling (for reasons unknown to me he often gets shafted out of even a place in the top 20 of all-time. I think he was better than the likes of Walcott, for starters. He knocked out a prime Joe Louis, among other things.)
I agree. Not having him in the Top20 IS underating him. He even has enough arguments to be ranked in the Top15.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
I love this picture of him and Tyson. I don't know where they're at or what they're doing but I think they're saying they're number one.

This one's not bad either:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
its a belter.what a warrior
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Valuev is a little bit underrated because of his timid spells but he'd never beat Bob Foster. Ever.
You're joking???
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

John L Sullivan in under-rated by all except a few specialists.

Bob Fitzsimmons is highly regarded but he is under-rated as a heavyweight.

Jim Jeffries is under-rated by all except a few specialists.

Jess Willard is verry under-rated by many.

Jack Dempsey was over-rated for a long time but he is verry under-rated here.

Jack Sharkey is verry under-rated by most. There are dimensions to his resume that people just dont see.

Primo Carnera is verry under-rated by the average boxing fan, but we are starting to see a ballence view here.

Jersey Joe Walcott. Again, there are dimensions to his resume that people just dont see.

Joe Frazier has never really escaped from the ominous shaddow of George Foreman.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:52 AM   #11
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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John L Sullivan in under-rated by all except a few specialists.

Bob Fitzsimmons is highly regarded but he is under-rated as a heavyweight.

Jim Jeffries is under-rated by all except a few specialists.

Jess Willard is verry under-rated by many.

Jack Dempsey was over-rated for a long time but he is verry under-rated here.

Jack Sharkey is verry under-rated by most.

Primo Carnera is verry under-rated by the average boxing fan but we are starting to see a ballence view here.

Joe Frazier has never really escaped from the ominous shgadow of George Foreman.

So anyone who agrees with you is a 'specialist'??
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:54 AM   #12
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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So anyone who agrees with you is a 'specialist'??
There are certain fighters who you are only going to fully apreciate by studying their era.

If you have done that and come to different conclusions than me then that is fair enough.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:05 AM   #13
flamengo
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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There are certain fighters who you are only going to fully apreciate by studying their era.

If you have done that and come to different conclusions than me then that is fair enough.


Fair return mate.

For mine, John L. His qualities as Champion are on par with Adolf Hitlers qualities as a comedian.

People offering excuses for John L. are no better than those who offer excuses for Adolf.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:25 AM   #14
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Overrated:

Carnera
Baer
Marciano
Foreman
Wlad (big time)

Underrated:

Fitz
Jeffries
Burns
Willard
Tunney
Schmeling
Sharkey
Frazier
Tyson

Not Sure:

Dempsey
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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Fair return mate.

For mine, John L. His qualities as Champion are on par with Adolf Hitlers qualities as a comedian.

People offering excuses for John L. are no better than those who offer excuses for Adolf.
Seems a bit harsh.

Sullivan had his faults as a man but he was not evil.
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