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Old 07-25-2012, 11:00 AM   #61
PhillyPhan69
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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Yes, my point though, was that there was three of them all ending more spectacularly than the other. According to most now that Tysons career is over and judging by how he finished up, he would have never had a shot against the likes of Holyfield and lewis at his best.

He would certainly have a shot....I would pick Holy over Tyson and Tyson over Lewis....but that is hypothetical and cannot be proven and there will be enough people on both sides that a genuine consensus could not even be formed...Tyson is great and anyone who wants to place him top 5 probably over rates him outside of the top 11 or 12 seriously underrates him.

The problem is the 2 extreme views 1) 86 Tyson is indestructable...and 2) You only had to stand up to Tyson and he would fold.....Both are horrible representations of Tyson the fighter, and cause extreme knee jerk reaction responses..

Tyson huggers were bad here at esb about 5 years ago, now it has changed it does almost seem as if his nay sayer have over taken his advocates....Not sure I would say he is underrated just yet, as most still have him top 10 atg and he is frequently called a H2H beast
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:09 AM   #62
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Underrated....Johannson & Patterson.....seriously I have seen polls on patterson against virtually every boxer listed as a top 25 atg, and do not believe I have ever seen him picked to beat anyone???? Who is the best fighter you would pick Floyd to beat???? If ESB was reality, Floyd would have lost to some of the guys he actually beat!!!!

I was also going to say Schmeling, but since he has been listed in half of the posts, he probably no longer qualifies for that here....good to know- he was a good guy and a good fighter
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:00 PM   #63
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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Jersey Joe Walcott. Again, there are dimensions to his resume that people just dont see.
Please, could you explain which dimensions?
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:45 PM   #64
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

I think Walcott is one of these guys who never seemed to get lucky on the big occasion but when you pit him against any other champion outside of the top 5 or 6 in a fantasy fight he stands a real chance. I mean look at the era he was fighting in! Louis (many people think he won the first match), Charles, Marciano. Hell the fact he became the champ shows his guts and staying power when he could have been remembered as just a very good contender.

Outside of his beautiful skills he just had a lot of heart and ***** which puts him ahead of 80% of the title holders from the last 20 years. A classic example of a guy who may not have an amazing record on paper but is a more memorable champion when you take a closer look at his era then for example Wladimir Klitschko.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:28 PM   #65
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

There's no rhyme or reason to my choices, other than I see them getting overrated from an accomplishment and/or H2H standpoint by a good number of the posts I see here. Vice versa for the underrated. Naturally every fighter's either over or underrated by somebody, but just going by the trends I've seen....either way, I've listed the points at which I'd consider them overrated/underrated for the ones I have solid opinions on.

Overrated:
Liston @ top 5 or higher
Holmes @ top 3
Lennox @ top 5
Ali. I never rate him lower than 2 myself because he's got the accomplishments to back it up, but on a H2H standpoint, he's still built up as this unbeatable fighter over other ATG's, and that should never be the case when you're dealing with other legendary fighters.

Underrated
Holyfield @15 or lower
Wlad @ 15 (particularly if people rate Holmes top 3, top 4)
Dempsey @ 15
Carnera - I don't even have a particular number, but the way people wrote off his entire career as a mafia fighter while still rating other mafia fighters is disgraceful. If we're looking at the Rodney Dangerfield heavyweight champs, Carnera's right there with Floyd Patterson as the two heavyweight champs that get the least respect on here.

I also think that Tyson, while some may overrate his H2H abilities, gets sold short on the accomplishment spectrum.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:39 PM   #66
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Overrated:
Jeffries
Johnson
Dempsey

Underrated:
Dokes
Tubbs
Ruiz
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:19 PM   #67
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Overrated:
Jeffries
Johnson
Dempsey

Underrated:
Dokes
Tubbs
Ruiz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Over-rater, under-rated.... there is no consensus on how fighters are rated. If this board proves anything, it is this. Pointless topic for soapboxers.

William "The Prussian" Sheriff is criminally under-rated. He could have licked Sullivan, Jackson and Corbett in the same afternoon. Physical specimen.
Guess it's always more fun to play. I think the original poster makes some good mentions/points. I disagree strongest on Johnson probably.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:40 PM   #68
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

SI Magazine did an article on this topic once...the result?...most underrated?-Rocky Marciano...
most overrated?-Muhammad Ali...
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:50 AM   #69
PetethePrince
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Atlas said it best with Marciano. Something like, "he's probably most overrated and underrated HW champ of all time."
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:02 AM   #70
Seamus
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Guess it's always more fun to play. I think the original poster makes some good mentions/points. I disagree strongest on Johnson probably.
There is no play, no jocularity or attempt to induce mirth, in my contentions. A picture of Johnson is to be found in any reputable dictionary alongside the definition of overrated.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:10 AM   #71
PetethePrince
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
There is no play, no jocularity or attempt to induce mirth, in my contentions. A picture of Johnson is to be found in any reputable dictionary alongside the definition of overrated.
Was commentating on your two contrasting posts, not your picks. Sorry for lacking clarity. I went to the dictionary but not for the reasons you mentioned. Thanks for making me feel so inane, though.

Since we're on the topic. What makes Jeffries so overrated at this point? He's barely considered to in anyone's top 10, let alone top 15 these days.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:32 AM   #72
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Default Re: Heavyweight Champions - The Overrated and The Underrated

Overrated:
Holyfield
both Klitschkos

Underrated:
Holmes
Liston
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