Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


View Poll Results: Who wins,a nd how?
Marciano by KO 23 57.50%
Marciano by decision 5 12.50%
Holyfield by KO 2 5.00%
Holyfield by decision 8 20.00%
Draw 2 5.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-05-2007, 11:42 AM   #1
cross_trainer
Bergeron Avatar Club
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,685
vCash: 1000
Default Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

The version of Marciano who beat Louis against the version of Holyfield who fought Lennox.

Who wins, and how?
cross_trainer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-05-2007, 12:05 PM   #2
dmt
Hardest hitting hw ever
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Marciano
dmt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 12:06 PM   #3
MrMagic
Super Six
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 19,767
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Marciano
Probably by knockout.
MrMagic is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 12:14 PM   #4
mr. magoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 13,572
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by cross_trainer
The version of Marciano who beat Louis against the version of Holyfield who fought Lennox.

Who wins, and how?
Interesting matchup

Holyfield at 36 was showing noticable signs of deterioration in the areas of reflexes, power, and stamina in the later rounds. He also didn't seem to show as much enthusiasm as he did in his earlier days against Dokes, Stewart, Douglas and Bowe. Neverthless, he was still very competitive and managed to win fragments of the title and took a very formidable Lewis the distance, then split a 3 fight series with John Ruiz later.

Marciano in 1951, was begining to get the attention of a lot of fans and experts. He had won all of his professional fights, and by this time was around 28 years old? He had some good learning experiences and defeated some very good fighters particularly in Roland Lastarza and Rex Layne. Rocky had demonstrated that he was not only a one of a kind puncher, but a durable fighter who could go the distance and come back when behind on points. Additionally, he had a swarming style that few heavyweights had ever truly employed, that would later be emulated by such fighters as Joe Frazier and Mike Tyson.

THE MATCHUP

By this point in his career, Evander Holyfield had already demonstrated that he could handle fighters who lowered their center of gravity and moved in close to try and crowd their opponents. Mike Tyson and Burt Cooper were examples of such fighers. In additon, he showed that he was still capable at age 36 of going the distance and taking hard shots from world class heavyweights, while returning the favor where he could. Marciano was a very formidable opponent and would have been a threat to Evander at his advanced age. Marciano however, was still in the learning process of his career, and even when he peaked later against the Walcotts and Charles' of the world would still struggle to beat older men. What's more, he would likely be facing a slightly larger and stronger fighter in Holyfield than that of Walcott, Charles or Louis. Rocky was deadly on the inside, but Evander had shown numerous times that he could neutralize the inside attacks of the shorter swarmer types. He also had the upper body strength to wrestle with Marciano in the clinches that Louis might not have had in 1951. Antother small factor is that Holyfield had a rather accurate and solid left hook-a punch that commonly troubled marciano. It also usually took a much larger boxer/puncher type to get the better of Holyfield even at a later age. Lastly, I see quite a bit of clashing of heads in this matchup, weather intentional or accidental. If such an occurence were to happen, Marciano would likely get the shorter end of the stick, and possibly sustain one or multiple cuts.

I make no convictions about who takes this one, but my inclination is to go with Holyfield by a razor thin decision in a 10 or 12 round fight. If the bout was scheduled for 15, I might give the edge to Marciano, because by age 36 it had been quite some time since Holyfield had gone to such lengths.

Last edited by mr. magoo; 10-05-2007 at 12:36 PM.
mr. magoo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 12:24 PM   #5
dmt
Hardest hitting hw ever
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Interesting matchup

Holyfield at 36 was showing noticable signs of deterioration in the areas of reflexes, power, and stamina in the later rounds. He also didn't seem to show as much enthusiasm as he did in his earlier days against Dokes, Stewart, Douglas and Bowe. Neverthless, he was still very competitive and managed to win fragments of the title and took a very formidable Lewis the distance, then split a 3 fight series with John Ruiz later.

Marciano in 1951, was begining to get the attention of a lot of fans and experts. He had won all of his professional fights, and by this time was around 28 years old? He had some good learning experiences and defeated some very good fighters particularly in Roland Lastarza and Rex Layne. Rocky had demonstrated that he was not only a one of a kind puncher, but a durable fighter who could go the distance and come back when behind on points. Additionally, he had a swarming style that few heavyweights had ever truly employed, that would later be emulated by such fighters as Joe Frazier and Mike Tyson.

THE MATCHUP

By this point in his career, Evander Holyfield had already demonstrated that he could handle fighters who lowered their center of gravity and moved in close to try and crowd their opponents. Mike Tyson and Burt Cooper were examples of such fighers. In additon, he showed that he was still capable at age 36 of going the distance and taking hard shots from world class heavyweights, while returning the favor where he could. Marciano was a very formidable opponent and would have been a threat to Evander at his advanced age. Marciano however, was still in the learning process of his career, and even when he peaked later against the Walcotts and Charles' of the world would still struggle to beat older men. What's more, he would likely be facing a slightly larger and stronger fighter in Holyfield than that of Walcott, Charles or Louis. Rocky was deadly on the inside, but Evander had shown numerous times that he could neutralize the inside attacks of the shorter swarmer types. He also had the upper body strength to wrestle with Marciano in the clinches that Louis might not have had in 1951. Antother small factor is that Holyfield had a rather accurate and solid left hook-a punch that commonly troubled marciano. It also usually took a much larger boxer/puncher type to get the better of Holyfield even at a later age.

I make no convictions about who takes this one, but my inclination is to go with Holyfield by a razor thin decision in a 10 or 12 round fight. If the bout was scheduled for 15, I might give the edge to Marciano, because by age 36 it had been quite some time since Holyfield had gone to such lengths.
that's some good analysis, however Charles was much younger then Evander and Walcott trickier overall.
dmt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 12:37 PM   #6
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,226
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

They say that all being equal a fight generaly goes to the person who wants it the most.

This would be the first time that either man had been in with sombody who wanted it as much as them.

I would expect to see something intense.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 07:36 PM   #7
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Why I think Holyfield wins a UD

Strength/Size - 217lbs of ripped muscle versus 180lbs of ripped muscle - Holyfield can back Marciano up, push him back in clinches

Reach/Height - 78inch versus 68? 6'2 versus 5'11

Jabbing - Holyfield can jab Marciano from range easily, if Marciano moves inside the bigger Holy can push him back

Speed - Holyfields greater speed & reach means he can beat Marciano to the punch most of the night

High workrate - not as high as prime or as high as MArcianos but Holyfield had a higher workrate than Marciano was used to from his opponents. It would be quality versus quantity with Marciano throwing more and landing less

Power - Holyfield had very good power, maybe a bigger puncher than Marciano had taken - thats up for debate

Movement - Holyfield is the better mover and boxer.

Holyfield wouldn't have it all his all way and Marcianos relentless assaults would get him some rounds. 8-4 Holyfield UD or 9-6 in a 15rounder
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 07:42 PM   #8
Luigi1985
Cane Corso
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,326
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Marciano- KO, easily. Holyfield at this age couldnīt go succesfully the pace Rocky went...
Luigi1985 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 10:17 PM   #9
cross_trainer
Bergeron Avatar Club
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,685
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave krieg
How about a prime Marciano vs a black little person with no arms.Even that is too much of a challenge for Marciano.
You are welcome to make that thread if it will make you feel better.
cross_trainer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 11:26 PM   #10
radianttwilight
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,272
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

The X factor here is Holyfield's head. Marciano's face was prone to cuts, and if there is one thing you can count on in a Holyfield fight it's that he's gonna be dishing out some head lovin'
radianttwilight is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 11:35 PM   #11
RoccoMarciano
Blockbuster
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,446
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave krieg
How about a prime Marciano vs a black little person with no arms.Even that is too much of a challenge for Marciano.
Is everything race BS with you? As far as I'm concerned you should get kicked from the forum
RoccoMarciano is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2007, 04:15 AM   #12
NickHudson
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 447
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

I don't remember these physical advantages helping Holyfield very much for his matchup with teeny, weeny little Bobby Czyz who was 16 years and 6 losses into his pro career, and normally operated as a Light Heavy.

Granted Holyfield won, but how did the fight pan out? What actually happened when they stepped in the ring? The fight stats do not tell the whole story. I remember how surprised everyone was at how awful Holyfield looked against such as small, over the hill, limited opponent who was shot and right at the end of his career.

Your analysis is naive. There is so much more to boxing than one guy being taller and having longer arms than another.

We could just do a tale of the tape and leave it at that. Then noone would ever get hurt.

Greatest boxer of all time? Arnold Schwarzenegger, obviously. I mean, have you seen how big his guns were in 'Pumping Iron.'

1996 Czyz is not even 5% the fighter Marciano was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Why I think Holyfield wins a UD

Strength/Size - 217lbs of ripped muscle versus 180lbs of ripped muscle - Holyfield can back Marciano up, push him back in clinches

Reach/Height - 78inch versus 68? 6'2 versus 5'11

Jabbing - Holyfield can jab Marciano from range easily, if Marciano moves inside the bigger Holy can push him back

Speed - Holyfields greater speed & reach means he can beat Marciano to the punch most of the night

High workrate - not as high as prime or as high as MArcianos but Holyfield had a higher workrate than Marciano was used to from his opponents. It would be quality versus quantity with Marciano throwing more and landing less

Power - Holyfield had very good power, maybe a bigger puncher than Marciano had taken - thats up for debate

Movement - Holyfield is the better mover and boxer.

Holyfield wouldn't have it all his all way and Marcianos relentless assaults would get him some rounds. 8-4 Holyfield UD or 9-6 in a 15rounder
NickHudson is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2007, 04:32 AM   #13
Calroid
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 341
vCash: 1956
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Marciano by KO.
Calroid is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2007, 05:58 AM   #14
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,226
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

I actualy think that the cruiserweight Holyfield would have a better chance against Marciano than the heavyweight version.

The atributes he will really need here are workrate, speed and stamina not strength.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2007, 06:59 AM   #15
The Kurgan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,227
vCash: 576
Default Re: Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Why I think Holyfield wins a UD

Strength/Size - 217lbs of ripped muscle versus 180lbs of ripped muscle - Holyfield can back Marciano up, push him back in clinches

Reach/Height - 78inch versus 68? 6'2 versus 5'11

Jabbing - Holyfield can jab Marciano from range easily, if Marciano moves inside the bigger Holy can push him back

Speed - Holyfields greater speed & reach means he can beat Marciano to the punch most of the night

High workrate - not as high as prime or as high as MArcianos but Holyfield had a higher workrate than Marciano was used to from his opponents. It would be quality versus quantity with Marciano throwing more and landing less

Power - Holyfield had very good power, maybe a bigger puncher than Marciano had taken - thats up for debate

Movement - Holyfield is the better mover and boxer.

Holyfield wouldn't have it all his all way and Marcianos relentless assaults would get him some rounds. 8-4 Holyfield UD or 9-6 in a 15rounder
Excellent analysis, although I'd give Marciano a good shot at winning the last 3 rounds in a 15 rounder to win. In a 12 rounder, I don't think Holyfield's stamina would be a problem: he tired when big men like Lewis, Foreman and Bowe pushed him around, not when fighting boxers 35 lbs lighter.
The Kurgan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013