Prime Marciano vs. 36 year old Holyfield

[The Kurgan]

Originally Posted by janitor

I actualy think that the cruiserweight Holyfield would have a better chance against Marciano than the heavyweight version.

The atributes he will really need here are workrate, speed and stamina not strength.

I disagree. To try to outwork Marciano at cruiserweight is a retarded strategy, unless it's being executed by Evil Marciano Clone. Strength is Holyfield's key ally in this fight, along with skill and power.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by The Kurgan

I disagree. To try to outwork Marciano at cruiserweight is a retarded strategy, unless it's being executed by Evil Marciano Clone. Strength is Holyfield's key ally in this fight, along with skill and power.

I think that his own rather impresive cruiserweight workrate combined with his boxing ability would be his best hope.

If he tries to outmuscle Marciano he is just going to get mashed up. There are not many scenarios where having arms like a penguin is an advantage in boxing but this is asuredly one of them.

[RockyJim]

The Rock by KO........naturally...

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by NickHudson

I don't remember these physical advantages helping Holyfield very much for his matchup with teeny, weeny little Bobby Czyz who was 16 years and 6 losses into his pro career, and normally operated as a Light Heavy.

Granted Holyfield won, but how did the fight pan out? What actually happened when they stepped in the ring? The fight stats do not tell the whole story. I remember how surprised everyone was at how awful Holyfield looked against such as small, over the hill, limited opponent who was shot and right at the end of his career.

Your analysis is naive. There is so much more to boxing than one guy being taller and having longer arms than another.

We could just do a tale of the tape and leave it at that. Then noone would ever get hurt.

Greatest boxer of all time? Arnold Schwarzenegger, obviously. I mean, have you seen how big his guns were in 'Pumping Iron.'

1996 Czyz is not even 5% the fighter Marciano was.

The point is Holyfield had a MASSIVE physical advantage and was the better boxer than Marciano.

He put Cryz away in 5 in an off night when Holyfield was recovering from hepititis - what has that got to do with anything? Anyway Cryz hadnt fought at LHW for 7years and weighed 210. We can pick out plenty of nights when Marciano looked poor too.

Who said anything about bodybuilders you condescending twat, obviously an unskilled muscle bound bodybuilder gets taken apart easily. But a bigger stronger more skilled boxer beats a smaller weaker less skilled boxer

[Luigi1985]

Always when Holyfield didn´t look impressive, he was ill, strange...



but I know, always finding excusses...

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by The Kurgan

Excellent analysis, although I'd give Marciano a good shot at winning the last 3 rounds in a 15 rounder to win. In a 12 rounder, I don't think Holyfield's stamina would be a problem: he tired when big men like Lewis, Foreman and Bowe pushed him around, not when fighting boxers 35 lbs lighter.

Yes I think a 15 rounder would play into Marcianos hands with the greater stamina - Holyfield wouldn't die he'd just not quite have the same workrate as Marciano in these rounds. Although his stamina may get sapped

I forgot to mention Holyfields dirty infighting, which will definately come into play because Marciano ALWAYS likes to come inside and Holyfield ALWAYS uses his head to drill the fighter coming in.

This could be the dirtest fight in history - Headbuts, low blows, elbows - The Lot

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

Always when Holyfield didn´t look impressive, he was ill, strange...

but I know, always finding excusses...

He won in 5 rounds, he doesn't need an excuse. But he was recovering from Hepititis.

The cryz fight has no bearing on this fight

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

He won in 5 rounds, he doesn't need an excuse. But he was recovering from Hepititis.

The cryz fight has no bearing on this fight

Against Moorer there exists many good and amused excusses, against Bowe, etc., pretty funny. Btw, what would help Holyfield that he is perhaps pysically a bit stronger than Marciano? Rocky was a much harder puncher, he would maul Holyfield, especially the old version, I can´t take you serious on this...

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

Against Moorer there exists many good and amused excusses, against Bowe, etc., pretty funny. Btw, what would help Holyfield that he is perhaps pysically a bit stronger than Marciano? Rocky was a much harder puncher, he would maul Holyfield, especially the old version, I can´t take you serious on this...

Ever thought of finding out what you talk about before posting a thread?

They may be geuine reasons. Against Moorer he was rushed to hospital with heart problems - possibly a heart attack. Are you suggesting he faked a heart attack as an excuse?

You have no evidence Marciano was a harder puncher than Holyfield. Marciano rarely scored 1 punch KOs. Even against Walcott, Walcott was exhausted and on shaky legs before Marciano landed the haymaker Suzie Q. This indicates he was not in fact a 1 punch KO artist and had less power than his fans claim.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Ever thought of finding out what you talk about before posting a thread?

They may be geuine reasons. Against Moorer he was rushed to hospital with heart problems - possibly a heart attack. Are you suggesting he faked a heart attack as an excuse?

You have no evidence Marciano was a harder puncher than Holyfield. Marciano rarely scored 1 punch KOs. Even against Walcott, Walcott was exhausted and on shaky legs before Marciano landed the haymaker Suzie Q. This indicates he was not in fact a 1 punch KO artist and had less power than his fans claim.

Watch tapes before you post about someone you saw perhaps only sometimes on youtube. He scored one-punch- KO´s for example against Layne, Matthews, Walcott, Louis, Buonvino, etc., when did Evander score one-punch-KO´s? Marciano is 100 % the harder puncher...


he became later the "volume puncher", against class, tricky defensive masters like Walcott, Charles, etc., and was right so, because with that tactic he maul them totally down, instead to think about landing the right shot, watch his career before his last 3 or 4 fights, he was a prime example of a one-punch-KO-artist...

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

Watch tapes before you post about someone you saw perhaps only sometimes on youtube. He scored one-punch- KO´s for example against Layne, Matthews, Walcott, Louis, Buonvino, etc., when did Evander score one-punch-KO´s? Marciano is 100 % the harder puncher...

he became later the "volume puncher", against class, tricky defensive masters like Walcott, Charles, etc., and was right so, because with that tactic he maul them totally down, instead to think about landing the right shot, watch his career before his last 3 or 4 fights, he was a prime example of a one-punch-KO-artist...

I've seen allot of these fights and all the fighters took a sustained beating taking allot of Marciano punches before Marciano landed his KO punch.

Sure he had power - but Lennox and Tyson had more and needed less shots to get the job done. Holyfield ate their shots he'd eat Marcianos and go the distance whether he wins or losses. I say he wins.

[Mega Lamps]

Marciano wins it.
Holyfield would not be able to outbox Marciano for long and would be drawn into a slugfest, which would become more and more difficult for him. Holyfield would eventually fall and either be stopped or lose by Unanimous Decision.
Even if by some strange turnaround he is not drawn into a slugfest and tries to box Marciano, he would lose by decision most likely. More skilled tacticians than Holyfield who were also stylistic nightmares for Rocky, were beaten by Marciano.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Strength/Size - 217lbs of ripped muscle versus 180lbs of ripped muscle - Holyfield can back Marciano up, push him back in clinches

Joe Louis was as big as Holyfield and Marciano shoved him round like a rag doll.

This is one area where Marcianos short stature works for him. He can lean into his oponents and get his centre of mass down low in a clinch.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by janitor

Joe Louis was as big as Holyfield and Marciano shoved him round like a rag doll.

This is one area where Marcianos short stature works for him. He can lean into his oponents and get his centre of mass down low in a clinch.

Louis wasn't as strong as Holyfield though. Holyfield is thicker, denser, stronger. Louis was never a man to bull wrestle his opponent around where as Holyfield loved to tussle in that way

Again I don't want to downplay Marciano but I think this is a close fight with the edge to Holyfield.

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by janitor

Joe Louis was as big as Holyfield and Marciano shoved him round like a rag doll.

This is one area where Marcianos short stature works for him. He can lean into his oponents and get his centre of mass down low in a clinch.

I think that you may be overlooking the fact that Louis didn't fair well against fighters who crowded or swarmed, wheras Holyfield tended to eat them right up.