Fitzimmons v Greb @ 160

McGrain · 06-26-2007, 10:35 AM

This one cropped up in my USA V The Rest Of The World thread.

I've become sort of obsessed with who it is fair to pick against Greb in purely stylistic terms. Probably related to the no film/huge status relationship. So far i've come across Dick Tiger & that's about it.

I think Fitz would be a good pick. Highly durable the Greb attack is neutralised (to a degree), meanwhile Greb's movement gives Fitz trouble - but Fitz doesn't need to land an awful lot to win this one, does he?

janitor · 06-27-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

- but Fitz doesn't need to land an awful lot to win this one, does he?

Perhaps he dose. Greb was arguably the most durable fighter of his weight that ever lived.

Having said that Fitz had a way of doing things with a single punch that other fighters and even top heavyweights could not.

McGrain · 06-27-2007, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janitor

Perhaps he dose. Greb was arguably the most durable fighter of his weight that ever lived.

Of course - I mean relative to the other fighters you could pick to take him on.

janitor · 06-27-2007, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

meanwhile Greb's movement gives Fitz trouble

This is what the fight is likley to turn on. Whether Greb is able to make Fitz miss consistently or whether fitz can find a way to solve his unorthodox style.

McGrain · 06-27-2007, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janitor

This is what the fight is likley to turn on. Whether Greb is able to make Fitz miss consistently or whether fitz can find a way to solve his unorthodox style.

Come on then; no-one else is interested in this one so you get to settle it - can Fitz find a way to solve his unorthodox style?

janitor · 06-27-2007, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Come on then; no-one else is interested in this one so you get to settle it - can Fitz find a way to solve his unorthodox style?

A couple of peope did find a formula that worked with Greb. I would mention Tommy Loughran and Gene tunney though it took the latter a few try's.

The key would be for Fitz to use a sustained body attack and not give Greb room to set up his windmill assult. If he uses his more usual style of leaning back and countering then Greb is likley to have his way.

Holmes' Jab · 06-27-2007, 05:57 AM

This matchup is a potentially great'un. That said despite Fitz's single punch power I can't really see him stopping Greb inside the distance, I think he'd need to force the issue and keep a high workrate going (especially downstairs), but would he outscore using this tactic? Hard to tell. Otherwise Greb would have it mostly his own way should Fitz stay on the outside

I think it would go to the scorecards: In which case Greb by UD.

Bad_Intentions · 06-27-2007, 11:22 AM

fitzsimmons.

Duodenum · 06-27-2007, 11:57 AM

Fitz admitted in his dressing room immediately after winning the title that Corbett's speed was too much for him to handle in the early going. Enoch Rechtor's film of the match bears Fitz out. That's why he vowed not to fight Corbett again. Beating peak Greb took a master boxer with great speed, as well as a quality body attack, and even then, it was an iffy proposition. Grantland Rice thought Greb won his second match with Tunney, Gene's only official win in their series.

Ruby Robert was a competent boxer, idolized by Gans and others, but Bob didn't have quite the handspeed of skill needed to tackle Greb. In a 15 rounder, Greb (who had much more experience with longer distances than Fitz) takes a fairly one-sided decision (in large part by always remaining mindful of Fitzsimmons's power).

McGrain · 06-27-2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duodenum

Bob didn't have quite the handspeed of skill needed to tackle Greb. In a 15 rounder, Greb (who had much more experience with longer distances than Fitz) takes a fairly one-sided decision (in large part by always remaining mindful of Fitzsimmons's power).

Very confident!

You don't think that Fitz has the type of power that can win a fight regardless at this weight? And is it not possible that he was the more durable of the two?

JimmyShimmy · 06-27-2007, 12:07 PM

You must understand that Fitz fought in that manner vs. Corbett, standing off and looking for the counter, because of his movement and size. Fitz knew that he'd have to bide his time in that one.

The MW Fitz was very much an attacking fighter who came at you with a two-fisted attack.

McGrain · 06-27-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyShimmy

The MW Fitz was very much an attacking fighter who came at you with a two-fisted attack.

Make a pick Jimmy.

JimmyShimmy · 06-27-2007, 12:13 PM

I'd have Fitz to stop Greb late. Greb would chip away as usual, but he'd have to contend with Fitz's big blows, which I feel would take chunks out of him as the fight went on.

It'd be even stuff, but a bloody Fitz would start putting the exclamation marks on each exchange with his big hooks and halt Greb as the fight hits the double figures.

Duodenum · 06-27-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Very confident!

You don't think that Fitz has the type of power that can win a fight regardless at this weight? And is it not possible that he was the more durable of the two?

I'm not disputing that Fitz has the necessary power or durability, just that Fitz wouldn't have been given the opportunity by Greb to bring those advantages into play enough to win the match.

Walker, Tunney, and Loughran provided vivid impressions of what it was like to face Greb in the ring, and when I superimpose that over Fitz's description of facing Corbett in the early rounds, and then view those difficulties as shown on the Rector footage, I simply believe Greb wouldn't have provided Fitz the space, or the stationary target Bob needed to effectively unload his heavy artillery. When Fitz chose to start off quickly, he could deprive his audience of their money's worth of action. But Greb wasn't one to allow Fitz the chance to fix his aim. Speed kills, and while Fitz had the speed necessary to give Jeffries headaches, he lacked it in the early going against the larger Corbett, and probably would have also lacked sufficient quickness against the continually moving smaller Greb. Over 15 rounds, the Windmill would have spun too much to be stopped. The Cornishman would have felt himself facing a hive of endless harassment.

janitor · 06-27-2007, 12:52 PM

I find both Jimmy Shimmy and Doudenums scenario's eminently plausible.

A lot depends on what strategy each fighter chose. I have already outlined the apropriate strategy for Fitz and Duodenum has outlined the apropriate strategy for Greb to my mind.

If either guy deviates from these strategies (as both somtimes did) he will likley loose.

06-26-2007, 10:35 AM	#1
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,272 vCash: 1000	Fitzimmons v Greb @ 160 This one cropped up in my USA V The Rest Of The World thread. I've become sort of obsessed with who it is fair to pick against Greb in purely stylistic terms. Probably related to the no film/huge status relationship. So far i've come across Dick Tiger & that's about it. I think Fitz would be a good pick. Highly durable the Greb attack is neutralised (to a degree), meanwhile Greb's movement gives Fitz trouble - but Fitz doesn't need to land an awful lot to win this one, does he?
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06-27-2007, 05:57 AM	#7
Holmes' Jab Master Jabber East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 11,930 vCash: 1000	Re: Fitzimmons v Greb @ 160 This matchup is a potentially great'un. That said despite Fitz's single punch power I can't really see him stopping Greb inside the distance, I think he'd need to force the issue and keep a high workrate going (especially downstairs), but would he outscore using this tactic? Hard to tell. Otherwise Greb would have it mostly his own way should Fitz stay on the outside I think it would go to the scorecards: In which case Greb by UD.
Top

06-27-2007, 11:22 AM	#8
Bad_Intentions Champion East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: Miami FL, USA Posts: 9,738 vCash: 153	Re: Fitzimmons v Greb @ 160 fitzsimmons.
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06-27-2007, 11:57 AM	#9
Duodenum Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,700 vCash: 1000	Re: Fitzimmons v Greb @ 160 Fitz admitted in his dressing room immediately after winning the title that Corbett's speed was too much for him to handle in the early going. Enoch Rechtor's film of the match bears Fitz out. That's why he vowed not to fight Corbett again. Beating peak Greb took a master boxer with great speed, as well as a quality body attack, and even then, it was an iffy proposition. Grantland Rice thought Greb won his second match with Tunney, Gene's only official win in their series. Ruby Robert was a competent boxer, idolized by Gans and others, but Bob didn't have quite the handspeed of skill needed to tackle Greb. In a 15 rounder, Greb (who had much more experience with longer distances than Fitz) takes a fairly one-sided decision (in large part by always remaining mindful of Fitzsimmons's power).
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06-27-2007, 12:07 PM	#11
JimmyShimmy 1050 psi ESB Full Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: 167lbs - P4P Baddest Posts: 352 vCash: 1000	Re: Fitzimmons v Greb @ 160 You must understand that Fitz fought in that manner vs. Corbett, standing off and looking for the counter, because of his movement and size. Fitz knew that he'd have to bide his time in that one. The MW Fitz was very much an attacking fighter who came at you with a two-fisted attack.
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06-27-2007, 12:13 PM	#13
JimmyShimmy 1050 psi ESB Full Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: 167lbs - P4P Baddest Posts: 352 vCash: 1000	Re: Fitzimmons v Greb @ 160 I'd have Fitz to stop Greb late. Greb would chip away as usual, but he'd have to contend with Fitz's big blows, which I feel would take chunks out of him as the fight went on. It'd be even stuff, but a bloody Fitz would start putting the exclamation marks on each exchange with his big hooks and halt Greb as the fight hits the double figures.
Top

06-27-2007, 12:52 PM	#15
janitor P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 19,058 vCash: 1000	Re: Fitzimmons v Greb @ 160 I find both Jimmy Shimmy and Doudenums scenario's eminently plausible. A lot depends on what strategy each fighter chose. I have already outlined the apropriate strategy for Fitz and Duodenum has outlined the apropriate strategy for Greb to my mind. If either guy deviates from these strategies (as both somtimes did) he will likley loose.
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