Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-10-2010, 06:44 PM   #16
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,984
vCash: 685
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prime View Post
In what is meant as a compliment, I nominate Larry Holmes as the worst possible fighter I can name greatest heavyweight ever.

48-0; 20 title defenses (the second highest number ever in the division); a record 8 straight knockout victories in title fights.

At his best, he looks sheerly impressive. Tall, well-stanced, with a manly aura of being all business, he had excellent movement in the ring, from the first bell deploying a punishing offense led by an extraordinarily sharp, strong, fast, versatile, busy jab. He could defeat mounds and heaps of mediocre opponents practically with this weapon alone. But it wasn't, by any chance, his only one.

His right hand was a fearsome battering ram, in the form of a cross, hook and uppercut, thrown in succession or combination. Holmes was a very good finisher. Once his opponent was hurt, the measured boxer would suddenly turn mean-streak assassin and mercilessly pummel his victim to defeat.

His defense was excellent. Though particularly susceptible to knockdowns from right hands, Holmes instintively raised two long, tough arms whenever in punching range, which served as a formidable shield for body and head. Blocking, parrying, clinching, movement -laterally to both sides or on the toes-, were all mastered defense-tool-kit components which served him so well he once scored a virtual shutout over 12 of fabled powerpuncher Earnie Shavers, without as much as a scratch.

His endurance was a plus. He could jab a man silly for seven straight rounds, thus placing victory safely in the bag from the start, yet roar back if necessary in the 15th and final round with an incessant stream of withering lefts and rights, down to the final bell.

And that heart! If you wanted to beat Larry Holmes, you practically had to be willing to die in the ring. Powerful men such as Mike Weaver, Earnie Shavers, Gerry Cooney, Ken Norton, Renaldo Snipes, Bonecrusher Smith, Trevor Berbick and Tim Witherspoon were determined to wrest victory from Holmes but had the tables turned on them and finally all met bitter defeat at the hands of a proud, regal, ring warrior.

At 6'3", 212 pounds, the Easton Assassin had the dimensions to successfully compete with any man of any era. To watch this savvy smooth operator in his glorious prime is to see the heavyweight championship of the world in good hands.
Absolutely brilliant answer and exactly the type of answer i was looking for.

I dont really want to add anything, it was so good, but i will also point out the fact that he competed so well past his best in the 90s era, and he beat the man most people pick as no 1 of all time by a dominant knock out.

Larry definitely joins Evander and Vitali on the back of this post as one who has a legitimate claim as greatest ever. I wonder how many guys will end up with a legitimate claim. I think it might come in as high as 10 or 12 but it will be interesting to see.
Boilermaker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-11-2010, 01:59 PM   #17
Pachilles
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 75
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

I can't be arsed to try justifying it, but Sugar Ray Leonard i think can definatley be considered, depending on criteria
Pachilles is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2010, 04:03 PM   #18
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,984
vCash: 685
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
I can't be arsed to try justifying it, but Sugar Ray Leonard i think can definatley be considered, depending on criteria
I cant see it, he never fought as a heavyweight! Pound for pound might be a different story, but he must fail this criteria.
Boilermaker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2010, 04:30 PM   #19
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,659
vCash: 238
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

I nominate Jeffries.

Despite little boxing experience, he never lost a fight until he retired. He decisively beat several hall-of-famers and more impotant, he beat every significant fighter of his time. Only after a 5 year lay off, he lost to another all-time-great who was at his peak.

To me, Jeffries' run is very impressive and despite having lost under less favorable circumstances, he still holds an aura of invincibility in my eyes, when fighting under the ruleset of his time.



A similar argument could be made for Marciano.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2010, 05:04 PM   #20
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,984
vCash: 685
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
I nominate Jeffries.

Despite little boxing experience, he never lost a fight until he retired. He decisively beat several hall-of-famers and more impotant, he beat every significant fighter of his time. Only after a 5 year lay off, he lost to another all-time-great who was at his peak.

To me, Jeffries' run is very impressive and despite having lost under less favorable circumstances, he still holds an aura of invincibility in my eyes, when fighting under the ruleset of his time.



A similar argument could be made for Marciano.
I agree that both are good answers. Both do definitely have cases, for the simple fact that they beat and dominated the very best fighters of their time. They were never beaten adn that is the name of the game. In fact, in reality they never really had any controversial calls go in their favour! I know some minorities say otherwise, but really they dominated their time. They also fought everyone who gave them a challenge twice, to prove the first win was no fluke. Both trained as hard as anyone and simply could not do any more in their time, than they did. It simply would not have been possible (okay, Jeffries could have fought Johnson and Rocky could have fought Valdez, but both had key losses at the time those fights were prominent). In jeffries case, he has physical statistics which are still solid, even today in the superheavyweight era.

Obviously the Johnson loss means nothing, as he had a 7 year break and still went 15 rounds (let us not forget that this would have been a ND draw if we only had 12 rounders, like many other fights today or back in the day). If anything that effort was simply astonishing. And the fact that the Rock resisted all temptations to come out of retirement also shows his mental toughness and determination.

I think that both of these fighters have an argument as the greatest ever.

By my count that makes

Vitali, Rocky, Holmes, Jeffries, Evander and of Course Ali and Louis.
Boilermaker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2010, 05:09 PM   #21
Brickhaus
Packs the house
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Badlefthook.com
Posts: 11,159
vCash: 75
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Harry Simon was the greatest light middleweight ever. Beat a prime Winky Wright, beat a number of undefeated fighters, retired undefeated himself.

Someone once made the argument to me that Khaosai Galaxy was the greatest Asian boxer ever, making the argument that he so ruined all of his opponents that none of them were able to accomplish anything after he beat them down and demoralized them.
Brickhaus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2010, 05:10 PM   #22
Brickhaus
Packs the house
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Badlefthook.com
Posts: 11,159
vCash: 75
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
I cant see it, he never fought as a heavyweight! Pound for pound might be a different story, but he must fail this criteria.
Your OP never said anything about heavyweights. Just to make the worst greatest ever.

If we're sticking to heavyweights only, I'm sure someone could make an argument for prime Brian Nielsen. Held his title for 7 years with about 20 title defenses, went 51 fights without losing only to lose once he was past prime. Defeated the great Larry Holmes. Defeated a man who defeated Tyson.
Brickhaus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 12:17 AM   #23
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,855
vCash: 500
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

I saw Rocky Marciano in his prime....I love Rocky Marciano as a powerful puncher, but one small point...Jack Dempsey, as every boxing writer, who saw them both in their primes,invariably picked Dempsey to beat Marciano without hesitation...Dempsey, PRIME,was just as tough, hit harder with BOTH hands, and most importantly was about twice as fast...And as experience teaches us SPEED KILLS...Dempsey, is only known now , by his two bouts with Gene Tunney, when Dempsey was 32 years of age, over the hill. and most importantly, hadn't fought in three years...At least I value his peak greatness...Dempsey wasn't called a "man killer", for nothing.....,
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 12:23 AM   #24
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,394
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Gianfranco Rosi.

Because he is from Perugia.
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 05:41 AM   #25
narsiccus
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 111
vCash: 500
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

New to forum, so take it easy on me.boxing fanatic, but i try not to pass judgement on fighters of the past,Louis,Dempsey,Marciano etc. i have noticed this thread seems to be missing one of my favorites george foreman,who would in my opinion won the physical battle with Ali, but unfortunately lost the physiological one. in his prime, fighters feared him, some were rumoured to avoid him, he was the Tyson of his era.Ali wore him down.

Interesting to see how some people rate boxers, and have different scoring plans. in mine, i forgive foreman's loss of the war of words, i believe in his prime, he would have demolished Ali, and as most top tens start with Ali at the helm, foreman should be up there?

take it easy on me you guys
narsiccus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 05:55 AM   #26
Bill Butcher
Erik`El Terrible`Morales
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix Marie`s ass, Fritzl Residence, Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 14,262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Th thread is a contradiction to itself, if its the worst answer, it cannot be the best answer.
Bill Butcher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 06:08 AM   #27
AlFrancis
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Granada, Spain.
Posts: 4,348
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Lennox Lewis should be on that list. A dominant world champion 3 times over a 10 year period. Lewis fought all styles and overcame them and beat every man he fought. He avenged his two losses in style. I count 13 world title claimants on his record, 2 of them cruiserweights, 3 if you count Holyfield. Wins over Holyfield and Vitali strengthen the argument specially the Vitali fight when he was 37 years old, I'd pick a younger Lewis to win this confidently.
AlFrancis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 08:32 AM   #28
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,609
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Mike Tyson.

He beat 4 reigning world heavyweight champions (WBC, WBA, IBF, and linear/RING) before he turned 22.
And he beat several contenders. In style.

After that his life turned to chaos, and much of that strife would have instantly destroyed most champions - or any celebrity - but Tyson carried on winning more than he lost, went to jail and came out and beat 2 more reigning world champions before his career really went under.
Of course, he was never the same without his original training team either, and he was fighting on anti-depressant medication for all his fights from around mid-'88 onwards. That's like expecting him to fight tranquilised !

To think of all that he achieved with all those handicaps is remarkable, and we all know that before those circumstances were there he was UNBEATABLE, and KOing contenders every couple of months !

And .... one last thing - just look at the footage.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 08:40 AM   #29
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,915
vCash: 75
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Harry Simon was the greatest light middleweight ever. Beat a prime Winky Wright, beat a number of undefeated fighters, retired undefeated himself.

Someone once made the argument to me that Khaosai Galaxy was the greatest Asian boxer ever, making the argument that he so ruined all of his opponents that none of them were able to accomplish anything after he beat them down and demoralized them.

His brother Khaokor was better.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 09:41 AM   #30
thejokerswild
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,696
vCash: 75
Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Th thread is a contradiction to itself, if its the worst answer, it cannot be the best answer.


edit-
I get what you're saying...

Edwin Valero kind of implies he's something that many believe he's not.
thejokerswild is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013