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Old 03-16-2010, 10:43 AM   #1
TheGreatA
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Default Ali as the aggressor

Imagine if he had fought his whole career like this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRpcufD39XA[/ame]
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:59 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

I like seeing this side of Ali. Frustrating that he just won't go to the body, though. It really is there for the taking.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

Ali would move in and fight offensively when he had the opponent hurt, tired or the opponent wasn't heavy handed but typically didn't like to stand and trade. This style versus Foreman or Frazier would have been suicide.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newskool View Post
bugner showed a good jab early but as the fight wore on he threw it less and less because of Ali's lead right.





He looked more impressive in the sixth round of his rematch with Chuvalo
Agreed. Muhammad looked awesome,at times in that one.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

Chuvalo sure had a chin. I wouldn't say that Ali was consistently as aggressive here as he was against Bugner because Chuvalo as always was bringing the fight to him.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXuJERuAB1M[/ame]


Ali taking the fight to hard-hitting Mac Foster:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Ktk8uWgMc[/ame]
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

Ali bet that crap outta Terrell and had one of his best performances against Clevland Williams. Both fights he was agressive in.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:37 AM   #7
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

Ali could fight both offensively & defensively.

He was a very good finisher too, even tho he didnt have Tyson type power, his accuracy made up for that, once he had a man stunned, he was great at unloading on him & stopping him.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

Bugner showed some good footwork.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

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Originally Posted by AndrewFFC View Post
Bugner showed some good footwork.
Taking the commentator's point about Bugner being Britain's best heavy since Tommy Farr,up to that point and years beyond,I'd go along with that. Until Lennox Lewis came along,of course.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

No harm to joe but Ali can afford to fight like that cos he knows he aint gonna meet with any resistance, nor is he gonna be hurt. When you know that, you can walk right through them
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

He was also aggressive with Blue Lewis, and produced the most sustained body attack of his career in that one. In the Bugner rematch, Muhammad commenced the fourth round action with a three punch combination to Joe's body, a burst which Don Dunphy (sitting directly below the corner where it was delivered) described as, "Solid thumps!" Against taller opponents, he would go downstairs if the risk was minimal.

These events are significant, because Ali's match with Jimmy Young has led to this stereotype that he always responded poorly when faced with taking the initiative. The simple truth is that he was in lousy shape for Young. His next outing against Dunn showed a far more sharply prepared Ali. Muhammad's rematch with Quarry also showed a fair amount of aggression, as Jerry tried to draw him in for counter punching. Ali used his jab as an offensive weapon there, and he knocked Quarry around with it a bit.
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Old 03-18-2010, 10:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

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Originally Posted by Lobotomy View Post

These events are significant, because Ali's match with Jimmy Young has led to this stereotype that he always responded poorly when faced with taking the initiative. The simple truth is that he was in lousy shape for Young.
I wouldn't point to the Young fight to prove anything, given that he not only was a bloated hog in that fight but also was well past his prime in general.

If there is a fight that raises questions about Ali's ability to take the initiative, though, I would say it might be the Billy Daniels one, in which I actually thought Daniels might've been winning the fight until it was suddenly and somewhat questionably ended on a cut eye.
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Old 03-18-2010, 10:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

Muhammad Ali was proper shit in the rematch..........

I can remember watching it on ESPN Classic thinking...how shit he performed.

And he was'nt in good shape etheir...
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Taking the commentator's point about Bugner being Britain's best heavy since Tommy Farr,up to that point and years beyond,I'd go along with that.
Bugner looked pretty good at this stage of his career, around the time of this fight and his fight with Frazier. I'd say this was probably his peak here, when he still weighed around 215-220 pounds. When his weight went up to around 230-plus, as it was in the Ali rematch, he wasn't the same fighter. Still, he showed his class years later during his '80s comeback, when he made a mockery of that era's heavyweights.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ali as the aggressor

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Originally Posted by Lobotomy View Post
He was also aggressive with Blue Lewis, and produced the most sustained body attack of his career in that one. In the Bugner rematch, Muhammad commenced the fourth round action with a three punch combination to Joe's body, a burst which Don Dunphy (sitting directly below the corner where it was delivered) described as, "Solid thumps!" Against taller opponents, he would go downstairs if the risk was minimal.

These events are significant, because Ali's match with Jimmy Young has led to this stereotype that he always responded poorly when faced with taking the initiative. The simple truth is that he was in lousy shape for Young. His next outing against Dunn showed a far more sharply prepared Ali. Muhammad's rematch with Quarry also showed a fair amount of aggression, as Jerry tried to draw him in for counter punching. Ali used his jab as an offensive weapon there, and he knocked Quarry around with it a bit.
I agree with you on your point of Ali being stereotyped as being no good at taking the initiative. Jimmy Young would stop any top fighter in history from looking their best,and as you say,Ali was way out of shape. Plus this fight was post Manila when Muhammad started to go downhill. The Ali of Zaire,for example would have beaten Young a lot more convincingly. Would still have gone 15 rounds though,imo.
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