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Old 03-18-2010, 02:58 PM   #61
manbearpig
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
lewis KO'd rahman , rahman KO'd lewis whom should be higher h2h ?
and according to you McCall deserves being rated higher than lewis , why are you so quiet about this ?
Lewis. His win was more emphatic.
When did I say McCall deserves to be rated higher? I'm just calling bullshit on your "head to head" list when a guy is higher than another guy who defeated him and has a far stronger list of fighters faced and beaten.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:01 PM   #62
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post

Vitali Klitschko's 10 best wins

- Corrie Sanders
- Sam Peter (knocked down wladimir and lasted the distance against him)
- Herbie Hide
- Larry Donald
- Chris Areola
- Kirk Johnson
- Danny Williams (just after his stoppage of tyson)
- Timo Hoffman
- Juan Gomez (underrated hw whom twice outpointed McCall)
- Kevin Johnson
The fact that Kevin Johnson is counted as one of Vitali's best wins says it all.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:21 PM   #63
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

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Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
The fact that Kevin Johnson is counted as one of Vitali's best wins says it all.
the only thing that prevents me to exchange him with someone else is the fact that he survived , so i guess he worth something
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:23 PM   #64
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woddy View Post
1. Koki Kameda
2. Chuck Wepner
3. Wladamir Klitschko
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Chris Byrd
6. John Ruiz
7. Ruslan Chagaev
8. Tony Tucker
9. Corrie Sanders
10. Lamon Brewster.
Fixed.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:26 PM   #65
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

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Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
Lewis. His win was more emphatic.
When did I say McCall deserves to be rated higher? I'm just calling bullshit on your "head to head" list when a guy is higher than another guy who defeated him and has a far stronger list of fighters faced and beaten.
i did not claim vitali's wins are better.
i do claim that unlike lewis , you know vitali will remain standing .
remaining standing is important. lewis had a problem with it , vitali did not.
how many tmes vitali was knocked down as a pro ? 1 ?
and lewis ?
how many times was vitali knocked out as a pro , or even close to it ?
and lewis ?
these are my reasons.
you keep not presenting your top 10 list ? where is it ?
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:29 PM   #66
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

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=frankenfrank;6345470]you know why vitali quit against byrd , it had nothing to do with byrd's dangerousness , nor with his brutal punching power.
No, it was because of an injury that was neither man's doing.. But a loss is a loss, and with Vitali leading on the cards with only a short time to go, a lot of other fighters might not have let a win slip away like that....

Quote:
had it been by decision , i'd still consider vitali the superior fighter as he would have still remained on his feet for the last bell , something lewis had trouble of maintaining.
How in the hell would Vitali have been "the superior fighter ", in any case where Lewis beats him? You're not even making sense anymore.


Okay let's do this:


Quote:
- Razor Ruddock (after ruddock having 2 fights against tyson and getting KO'd earlier in his career)
He was in great shape and predicted by many to be the next heavyweight champ, and was heavily favored over Lewis... What evidence do you have to support that the Tyson and Jaco fights ruined him?


Quote:
- David Tua (7" shorter than himself)
How much shorter was Chris Byrd than Vitali?


Quote:
- Vitali Klitschko (on cuts)
Legitimate win.. Who cares?

Quote:
- Frans Botha (someone whom was KO'd every time he stepped up the level)
ermm.... and what about Herbie Hide and Corrie Sanders?


Quote:
- Evander Holyfield (37 years old and a former cw)
That " former cruiserweight" was the same age as many of Vitali's best opponents, and happens to be a concensus all time great heavy weight... Who did Vitali beat that was of this calibur?


Quote:
- Sam Peter (knocked down wladimir and lasted the distance against him)
The same Wladimir who the previous year was iced by Lamon Brewster and stopped by Corrie Sanders... Peter was also a whoppintg 250 lbs and looked like a beached whale against Vitali.



Quote:
- Danny Williams (just after his stoppage of tyson)
Tyson's career was over, and Danny Williams a journeyman at best.. Not a relevant mention.



Quote:
- Juan Gomez (underrated hw whom twice outpointed McCall)
you mentioned Holyfield being a 37 year old former cruiserweight, does this all of a sudden not apply to Gomez?



Quote:
i do agree lewis' opposition was somewhat better , but only by a small margin.
I'd say that it was LEAGUES better than anything Vitali fought.







Quote:
what settles the argument is the fact that should someone bet on a fighter between vitali and lewis to win a fight , or at least remain standing , one would better bet on vitali.
This settles absolutely nothing... You're asking someone to bet on one fighter against another, when that one fighter already proved that he was bested by the latter. What ****ing planet do you live on?


Quote:
he never avenged his loss to mccall , and could never do it.
it will always remain mccall KO'd lewis , and then used crack for their rematch , but still remained standing to the end.
According to your standards perhaps... According to 99% of the rest of the boxing world, Lewis won that match, and it wasn't his fault that McCall chose not to fight.

Quote:
lewis' claim to beating every man he fought is a lie.
No, its a statistical fact that can be proven... A lie is a false claim with no evidence to support it.... Learn the difference.


Quote:
did i claim vitali had better opponents ?
Yes... Here is the quote...

Quote:
frankenfrank - you can argue a lot about my list , what is your list ? it definitely has much worse flaws than mine.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:27 AM   #67
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

You forgot to mention the immortal scott ledoux.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:19 AM   #68
manbearpig
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
i did not claim vitali's wins are better.
i do claim that unlike lewis , you know vitali will remain standing .
remaining standing is important. lewis had a problem with it , vitali did not.
how many tmes vitali was knocked down as a pro ? 1 ?
and lewis ?
how many times was vitali knocked out as a pro , or even close to it ?
and lewis ?
these are my reasons.
you keep not presenting your top 10 list ? where is it ?
Right then. If never having been knocked out, head to head ability, and quality of opponents faced is your criteria, Muhammad Ali is your number one. Easily.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:36 AM   #69
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

where is manny pacquiao?
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:48 AM   #70
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

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Originally Posted by asero View Post
where is manny pacquiao?
So upon realizing you have zero credibility on ESB, you've decided to simply be a parody of yourself? Can't you just leave instead?
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:54 AM   #71
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

Vitali probably makes the tail end of the top 20 greatest heavies, at best.

Ranking them in any kind of order is always very subjective, but i have a rough idea of who should figure roughly where in a list. Ali and Louis should be in the top 2 spots (wouldn't argue too much with the order), 3-6 should include Lewis, Holmes and Foreman IMO then one other. The lower spots should definitely include Frazier, Marciano, Dempsey and Holyfield i think, maybe Tyson too. Then you have about another 4-5 fighters (Johnson, Liston etc.) competing to squeeze into the list. Again it is all quite subjective, but any list that is constructed similarly to how i've described i will never have any real argument with.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:54 PM   #72
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

Who is this Frankenfrank? The boy's a complete bafoon.
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:11 PM   #73
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woddy View Post
1. Mike Tyson
2. Wladimir Klitschko
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Chris Byrd
6. John Ruiz
7. Ruslan Chagaev
8. Tony Tucker
9. Corrie Sanders
10. Lamon Brewster.
It's a joke list yet you have Lewis around where most would put him (4/5)
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:19 PM   #74
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Tyson's career was over, and Danny Williams a journeyman at best.. Not a relevant mention.
Danny Williams had no right being in the ring with a 'world' champion, but calling him a "journeyman at best" is a bit ****ing harsh.
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:19 PM   #75
mr. magoo
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Default Re: My all time great top heavyweights list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prescott_Fan View Post
Vitali probably makes the tail end of the top 20 greatest heavies, at best.

Ranking them in any kind of order is always very subjective, but i have a rough idea of who should figure roughly where in a list. Ali and Louis should be in the top 2 spots (wouldn't argue too much with the order), 3-6 should include Lewis, Holmes and Foreman IMO then one other. The lower spots should definitely include Frazier, Marciano, Dempsey and Holyfield i think, maybe Tyson too. Then you have about another 4-5 fighters (Johnson, Liston etc.) competing to squeeze into the list. Again it is all quite subjective, but any list that is constructed similarly to how i've described i will never have any real argument with.
I don't know where I'd rank Vitali to be honest.. On one hand, I think he has the claim of having lost the fewest amount of rounds than anyone, has the best win/ko ration and is probably a nightmare in a head to head sense... On the otherhand, he has lost two fights that went unavenged, and one of those men were well past his prime.... He gets ****all credit for beating a lot of the opponents he's faced, and every one of his victories is quickley ripped apart by everyone on here as being against a tomato can... I don't agree with this of course, but that seems to be the perception..
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