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Old 03-17-2010, 10:21 AM   #16
My2Sense
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by asero View Post
nah!
You can count, can't you??

Britton
Latzo
Tendler
Shade
McTigue
Flowers
Friedman
Malone
Milligan
Berlenbach
Risko
Uzcudun
Lomksi
Hudkins
Wright
Levinsky
Rosenbloom

Take any 10 names you want off that list and you'll still be left with enough achievements to be an ATG. Even if you removed all the wins over HOFers/champions, you'd still have to acknowledge his wins over much bigger men.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:26 AM   #17
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
If Pac does beat all at WW, he clearly rates above Walker, as that would make him a dominant WW, something Walker never managed at any weight
Walker cleaned out WW for about 3-4 years straight, whupped at least two HOFers in title bouts and beat several other top rated contenders.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:36 AM   #18
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by My2Sense View Post
Walker is an ATG without his ten biggest wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by My2Sense View Post
You can count, can't you??

Britton
Latzo
Tendler
Shade
McTigue
Flowers
Friedman
Malone
Milligan
Berlenbach
Risko
Uzcudun
Lomksi
Hudkins
Wright
Levinsky
Rosenbloom

Take any 10 names you want off that list and you'll still be left with enough achievements to be an ATG. Even if you removed all the wins over HOFers/champions, you'd still have to acknowledge his wins over much bigger men.


Me likie.

Pacquiao is behind Walker now. There are fights out there that could put him above Walker, but it's a huge ask. Mayweather, Sugar, and a top LMW would do it for me. Mayweather and Sugar would make it arguable.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

What was his unbeaten streak at middleweight again?

He defended his title several times I believe, his UNDISPUTED title...not his 1/4 trinket.

Maybe not a domination but better then Pac's done at just about any single weight.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by My2Sense View Post
Walker cleaned out WW for about 3-4 years straight, whupped at least two HOFers in title bouts and beat several other top rated contenders.
Except Britton proved to be the better WW outboxing him when he was about 37 and only beating him when he was even more past it. Then Latzo clearly beat him at the weight

Losing to the best 2 men you faced in your prime doesnt make you dominant at the weight, whichever way you spin it
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Pacquiao went from 105 pounds to 145.

Walker went from 140 pounds to 175, but also fought heavyweights who were nearly 200 pounds.

Pacquiao beat Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Oscar Larios, Oscar de la Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto and Joshua Clottey.

Walker beat Mike McTigue, Lew Tendler, Tiger Flowers, Paul Berlenbach, Johnny Risko, Maxie Rosembloom, King Levinsky and Paolino Uzcudun.



Who is greater?
Walker. Clearly.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:53 AM   #22
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

I got Walker in the top ten. So Walker.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:53 AM   #23
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by WhataRock View Post
What was his unbeaten streak at middleweight again?

He defended his title several times I believe, his UNDISPUTED title...not his 1/4 trinket.

Maybe not a domination but better then Pac's done at just about any single weight.
Perhaps got the title on a gift, although I think Pac got a couple of gifts against JMM. Pac has had the linear title title in a few weight classes too, which amounts to undisputed
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:31 AM   #24
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Latzo clearly beat him at the weight.
Enquirer's mention of the 24 hour weigh in does come into play here, as Walker was clearly weight drained for that second title defense with Pete. Mickey handled Latzo pretty easily in 1923, but was outgrowing the WW division. Once he reached physical maturity, Walker was a pure MW.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:43 AM   #25
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Except Britton proved to be the better WW outboxing him when he was about 37 and only beating him when he was even more past it.
No he didn't, because that logic works both ways: Walker only lost while he was comparatively green and then crushed Britton once he was more experienced.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Losing to the best 2 men you faced in your prime doesnt make you dominant at the weight, whichever way you spin it
Yes it does, when you also beat them both along with nearly everyone else at that weight in a several-year span.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

Walker
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:18 PM   #27
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by Lobotomy View Post
Enquirer's mention of the 24 hour weigh in does come into play here, as Walker was clearly weight drained for that second title defense with Pete. Mickey handled Latzo pretty easily in 1923, but was outgrowing the WW division. Once he reached physical maturity, Walker was a pure MW.
How was he weight drained if he came in at 144lbs? Doesnt sound like a man struggling to make weight. Walker does have a win over Latzo, but Latzo only had 15 fights at that stage
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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nah!
Yea!
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

Pac hasn't dominated one division he's been (like say Floyd did @ 130) and his weight jumping is being unbelievably overrated. Manny would of been no more than a solid contender in some past eras and damn sure wouldn't have been even remotely competitive at 147.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
How was he weight drained if he came in at 144lbs? Doesn't sound like a man struggling to make weight.
Kearns to Walker: "Mickey, you're too low. You've lost the good weight, but you've also sweated off blood and muscle!" Walker had a tremendous personal rivalry with the Latzos, and went overboard training to eliminate Pete once and for all. (Decades later, Holmes did the same thing in his zeal to knock out Witherspoon, and Hearns was likewise accused of being underweight and over trained for his WW showdown with SRL. It happens.)
Quote:
Walker does have a win over Latzo, but Latzo only had 15 fights at that stage.
According to my Ring Record Book, Pete actually had nine fights in 1919, 15 in 1920, 15 more in 1921, 16 in 1922, and three more in 1923 before first challenging Walker for the title. (Fleischer is hardly an infallible resource, but anybody can go on youtube to discover what a dreadful fountain of incomplete misinformation boxwreck is. They record clean knockouts as TKOs, and TKOs as clean knockouts. They actually still have former 5'4" 1980s MW contender James "Hard Rock" Green listed as 5'11"!)

Last edited by Lobotomy; 03-17-2010 at 01:23 PM.
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