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Old 03-17-2010, 01:29 PM   #31
mcvey
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Why should we be in any hurry to answer this?

Pacquiao's final ranking is still yet to be finalised.
That is the sensible course to take.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

If Pacquiao retires tomorrow, Mickey wouldn't have to step on his fingers on that p4p ladder ....because Manny would be many rungs below him.

Some wins launch a fighter upwards. Walker beat the first-ranked HW contender in Jack Sharkey, make no mistake about that. Hell, even if it was a draw, which it was not, Manny has nothing approaching that.

Yet.

Also, too much is being made of where he began in terms of pounds. It isn't like the guy is a natural flyweight. He is a natural featherweight though, and no one better continue on with that already-exploded nonsense about his "now being a natural welterweight" -because he filled up on pancakes before the freakin weigh-in last week and then won.

If Manny defeats a Floyd and/or Shane (who will be a harder job than Floyd), then sinks back down to defeat Tim Bradley or rises up and finds a way to beat Pavlik, and then retires... I'll be seriously thinking about propelling him considerably forward from 20-30.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:06 PM   #33
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

Pretty Damn close IMO.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:22 PM   #34
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
If Pacquiao retires tomorrow, Mickey wouldn't have to step on his fingers on that p4p ladder ....because Manny would be many rungs below him.

Some wins launch a fighter upwards. Walker beat the first-ranked HW contender in Jack Sharkey, make no mistake about that. Hell, even if it was a draw, which it was not, Manny has nothing approaching that.

Yet.

Also, too much is being made of where he began in terms of pounds. It isn't like the guy is a natural flyweight. He is a natural featherweight though, and no one better continue on with that already-exploded nonsense about his "now being a natural welterweight" -because he filled up on pancakes before the freakin weigh-in last week and then won.

If Manny defeats a Floyd and/or Shane (who will be a harder job than Floyd), then sinks back down to defeat Tim Bradley or rises up and finds a way to beat Pavlik, and then retires... I'll be seriously thinking about propelling him considerably forward from 20-30.
Come on now, man.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

Fleaman seems to think that Pac could beat Pavlik.. I think its a step too far personally. As for the thread Walker by 5 - 10 spots right now, but Pacquiao could rise or fall depending on future results.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Come on now, man.
Do you know what the sportswriters put the odds at when "little Mickey" Walker faced Jack Sharkey...?

50-1.

Do you know what they did when a 37 year-old, ex-great turned club-fighter Duran stepped in against Iran Barkley?

They scoffed.

Pavlik ain't Marvin Hagler. He's straight-forward with no legs and one dimension. Would I bet on Manny? Nope. But Manny is a GREAT fighter... and great fighters do serious things.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Walker does have a win over Latzo, but Latzo only had 15 fights at that stage
WTF are you talking about, his records on boxrec and CBZ both show about 60 fights for him before fighting Walker the first time.

Last edited by My2Sense; 03-17-2010 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:59 PM   #38
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Perhaps got the title on a gift, although I think Pac got a couple of gifts against JMM. Pac has had the linear title title in a few weight classes too, which amounts to undisputed
Not quite.

Was DM undisputed at 175 when Roy was around, just because he was the lineal?

There are still 3 other champs rolling around...and Pac won his first title when TooSharp was hitting his straps. I dont believe Sasukul was necessarily the best fighter at the weight, though he was a very good one..at the very least the number 2.

Given how often Walker was fighting he was "cleaning out" divisions more so then Pac ever did.

Another positive for Walker was how often he was giving away weight against world class opposition. Lots of weight aswell.

Now Manny defied a lot of opinion by coming so far up in weight and beating pretty good fighters but really he was rarely the smaller guy in the ring by a big margin...thanks to smart negotiating by his team.
Walker didnt get that luxury.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:52 PM   #39
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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WTF are you talking about, his records on boxrec and CBZ both show about 60 fights for him before fighting Walker the first time.
I think Pee Pee has abandoned this thread.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:21 AM   #40
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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1. Kearns to Walker: "Mickey, you're too low. You've lost the good weight, but you've also sweated off blood and muscle!" Walker had a tremendous personal rivalry with the Latzos, and went overboard training to eliminate Pete once and for all. (Decades later, Holmes did the same thing in his zeal to knock out Witherspoon, and Hearns was likewise accused of being underweight and over trained for his WW showdown with SRL. It happens.)

2. According to my Ring Record Book, Pete actually had nine fights in 1919, 15 in 1920, 15 more in 1921, 16 in 1922, and three more in 1923 before first challenging Walker for the title. (Fleischer is hardly an infallible resource, but anybody can go on youtube to discover what a dreadful fountain of incomplete misinformation boxwreck is. They record clean knockouts as TKOs, and TKOs as clean knockouts. They actually still have former 5'4" 1980s MW contender James "Hard Rock" Green listed as 5'11"!)
1. Interesting, still fighters are drained half the time at the weight, especially when they are big at the weight. Every fighter has an excuse when they lose.

2. Latzo was only 20 at the time of the first fight, which. Walkers boxrec page says 15fights, but I think they've updated Latzos page since

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ]14-1-0113th Regiment Armory, Newark, New Jersey, United StatesWNWS12

Either way a 20yo Latzo didnt do nearly as well as the 23yo version, it seems safe to say the 20yo version was very much pre-prime
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:28 AM   #41
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Not quite.

Was DM undisputed at 175 when Roy was around, just because he was the lineal?

There are still 3 other champs rolling around...and Pac won his first title when TooSharp was hitting his straps. I dont believe Sasukul was necessarily the best fighter at the weight, though he was a very good one..at the very least the number 2.

Given how often Walker was fighting he was "cleaning out" divisions more so then Pac ever did.

Another positive for Walker was how often he was giving away weight against world class opposition. Lots of weight aswell.

Now Manny defied a lot of opinion by coming so far up in weight and beating pretty good fighters but really he was rarely the smaller guy in the ring by a big margin...thanks to smart negotiating by his team.
Walker didnt get that luxury.
Your right about Pac not cleaning out divisions, I was pretty gutted we never got a Guzman fight from 122-130, that fight would have been very interesting.

On another note Pacquaio is fighting in a superior more competitive era, the sport has become far more globalised, the sport gives far better opportunities to black fighters (the 20s certainly didnt), sports nutrition and training as its best. In that sense Pacquaio is more of a world champion, than Walker who in a sense is only a 'white American champion'
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:33 AM   #42
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Old 03-18-2010, 11:02 AM   #43
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Your right about Pac not cleaning out divisions, I was pretty gutted we never got a Guzman fight from 122-130, that fight would have been very interesting.

On another note Pacquaio is fighting in a superior more competitive era, the sport has become far more globalised, the sport gives far better opportunities to black fighters (the 20s certainly didnt), sports nutrition and training as its best. In that sense Pacquaio is more of a world champion, than Walker who in a sense is only a 'white American champion'
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:04 AM   #44
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

Jesus PP...I thought we were actually having a decent discussion there, then you had to just go spoil it all.....
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #45
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Default Re: Who's greater: Pacquiao or Mickey Walker?

Pretty much every human endeavour has advanced and improved, every measurable sport has improved and advanced. Most here think boxing is different, the only argument for that seems to be over the last 10-20years there seem to be less boxing gyms and maybe less young people get involved in the sport. In Walkers day the sport was in its fledgling years, sports science was backward, nutrition was primitive, African Americans didnt have the same opportunities to compete, there wasnt typically global involvement in world titles
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