Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


View Poll Results: Greatest title reign...
Benny Leonard 9 26.47%
Willie Pep 1 2.94%
Harry Greb 1 2.94%
Jack Britton 0 0%
Joe Gans 0 0%
Muhammad Ali 9 26.47%
Other (see list in thread-starter) 14 41.18%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-21-2010, 05:32 PM   #31
GPater11093
Barry
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 19,025
vCash: 836
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

itrymariti

Louis had a loss to Charles in a world title bout, but it is largely irrelevant.

I think Louis does score heavily in longevity and quality of perforamcne but someone like Monzon has a really balanced reign.

I'm not going to argue too much as I have made my points clear and there is not that much in between them. I need to brush up on Benny Leonard but it looks like he would be my second place and Louis in at third
GPater11093 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-21-2010, 05:54 PM   #32
Bokaj
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,232
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itrymariti View Post
That's one criterion. You mentioned three others.

"Quality of Performance" - Louis knocked most of his challengers for six within a handful of rounds, including some very good (if not great) opponents. At his best, he looked virtually unbeatable, with precise range control like nothing before and speedy combinations, not to mention having a punch like a freight train. He showed a versatile arsenal of skills, and dealt with big guys, small guys, inside fighters, outside fighters, guys that moved, guys that came straight in: the lot.

"Examination of Losses" - Louis had none; his reign was uninterrupted. There was one seemingly dubious decision, but how many others on the list didn't have the odd close shave, let alone the odd loss?

"Longevity" - 25 title defences, longest reigning champion etc.

For every category of those three, one can construct a decent argument for Louis being the number 1. He is most certainly "in the running".
Agree with all of this.
Bokaj is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2010, 05:56 PM   #33
Bokaj
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,232
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
itrymariti

Louis had a loss to Charles in a world title bout, but it is largely irrelevant.
I'd say it's totally irrelevant for this discussion actually since that loss came after his reign.
Bokaj is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2010, 09:35 PM   #34
Toker
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 584
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Louis

1. Quality of opposition
beat everyone avoided no one

2. Quality of performance
he beat everyone during his reing and did so decisively (the only time there was a question mark he had a rematch and destroyed his opponent).

3. Examination of losses
there were no losses during his reign

4. Longevity
the longest reign of any champion in any division
Toker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2010, 09:44 PM   #35
asero
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,419
vCash: 75
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Still Hopkins
asero is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:00 AM   #36
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,984
vCash: 685
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

I think Bob Fitzsimmons middleweight reign is the best, although i can see the argument for Joe Louis.

Fitzys middleweight reign started in 1891 when he beat the Non pareil Jack Dempsey. Jack was getting on but was still an all time great.

He then won, by my count, 11 fights throughout the next two years, all by knockout and all bar one within 3 rounds. The guy who took him further was none other than Peter Maher, who was one of the top heavyweight contenders of the time. In fact, Peter Maher is quite likely a better credentialed fighter than any other middleweight champion has ever defeated! certainly he would be in the top half a dozen anyway. In 1893 he scored another 12 victories all by KO before the 4th round, but mist in rounds 1 or 2. This included the top middleweight contender Jim Hall and also the New Jersey middleweight champion Jack Warner. Also, in an exhibition against Peter Maher, the fight apparently had to be stopped in the 2nd round. And in one night, he KOd 7 heavyweight boxers over 200lbs in 19 rounds, in a single night. Again, this is something that no other world middleweight champion has ever done or come close to doing. In fact heavyweight legend george foreman tried it, but never came close to doing it.

Onto 1894. As middleweight champion, Fitzsimmons knocked Joe Choynski out cold, so severley that police intervened and stopped the fight. Choynski is arguably a top 10 light heavyweight and was a better fighter (arguably) than any other middleweight fighter has ever fought. It is as impressive as anything ever done. 1894 was a slower year with only about 4 other fights, but all of these were won within round 1 or 2! And several of his sparring partners for exhibitions, Con coughlin in particular comes to mind (nearly killed by a body shot!) came off the worst for ware.

Onto 1895, and it is clear that Fitz was slowing a little, as he focused more on the heavyweight title than on defending the middleweight crown. 1895 had just 2 known fights. A KO 1 and KO3 in New York, just 3 days apart.

In 1896 he fought for a version of the World heavyweight championship and beat Peter Maher by KO in 1. Again, no middleweight has ever done this. (Roy Jones was a former middleweight, but he didnt weigh in as a middleweight!). This was followed by another fight against another top heavyweight contender in Tom Sharkey (who went the distance twice with Heavyweight King Jim Jeffries). Fitzsimmons knocked him out cold in the 8th, although he was DQd for his troubles by the referee. Again, this is an opponent who is a higher caliber than any other middleweight has ever faced. And Fitz knocked him out.

Finally, in March 1897, Fitz middleweight reign came to an end 6 years after it started. And what an ending it was. If you are going to vacate a title, there is simply no better way to do it. He vacated the title because at 158lbs he had just knocked out the World Heavyweight Champion and arguably the greatest prizefighter that ever lived in Jim Corbett. Not only was this a better win than any other middleweight has ever had. But i would say it is the most spectacular retirement of any fighter in any division!

All in all, i would say that is the most dominant reign ever. No middleweight got close to him. Actually, no light heavy or heavy could touch him. And it is worth noting that while the legendary Jim Jeffries eventually caught up to him at heavy, in 1903 (this time weighing in as a super middleweight and not a middleweight, but surely capably of fighting at middle if required), Fitz won the light heavyweight title from another light heavy legend George Gardner. and it took another living legend Philadelphia Jim O brien (who was actually a heavyweight contender to beat him), but jim took 2 tries to do so, and it was only after Fitz hadnt really fought more than once in 2 years that he beat him. This means that it wasnt really until almost 14 years after he had won the middleweight title that a light heavy could be found to beat Fitz, and even then, it is doubtful that there was a middleweight alive who would have considered themselves a better prize fighter than Fitz. It is actually a shame that Fitz didnt continue to defend the middleweight title, because even as late as 1909 when he was stopped in the 12th round of an Australian Heavyweight title fight against Bill Lang, Land was still a higher caliber of fighter than any other middleweight (he was admittedly a supermiddle/light heavy at this stage) has ever managed to beat. So it is arguable that he was the best middle for nearly 20 years.
Boilermaker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 02:02 PM   #37
smitty_son408
J ust E njoy T his S hit
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Baton Rouge/New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,010
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

^^^

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
smitty_son408 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 08:25 PM   #38
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
Please vote, then explain your choice


Criteria

A decision on the greatest title reign should take into account several factors:


1.Quality of Opposition beaten at the weight
(who did they beat for the title / did they avoid or fail to face any serious contenders / the general standard of their challengers)

2.Quality of Performances at the weight
(how impressive/effective/dominant were they at the weight, ie how good were they on their best nights and how was the general standard of performance across their full time there)

2.Examination of Losses
(were there any losses? if there were, were they avenged? how damaging were the losses, ie were they outclassed/dominated, or was the loss a close call/impressive performance in defeat)

4.Longevity
(how long were they in the division for, how long was the title reign, if the title was lost was it soon regained)



(to be crowned winner here, the guy does not have to have only fought in one division, but it is only their reign in one division that counts here, it is not a question of pound-for-pound/career greatness)


* I fully expect there to be more than a few calls for people I haven't included in the poll. If this is the case, please state your choice and explain why they are your number 1 in this instance. The poll choices are merely those who I personally believe are viable contenders, but I'm very open to anyone feeling strongly about an omission. I would expect people to perhaps mention some of these:

Duran
Monzon
Robinson
Napoles
Hagler
Canzoneri
Saddler
Louis
Jofre
Olivares
Gavilan
etc..............
Joe Louis doesn't win in the overall "Quality" category, but his reign is legendary overall............... 1937 to 1949 is INSANE on that basis alone....... Louis' title reign is the most POPULAR in all of sports history........ Again, POPULAR!!

Ali's championship reigns 3X over is prolly the greatest of any champion ever.....

Holyfield and his comp is pretty damn respectable too.......

Little dudes like Wilfredo Gomez and Eusebio Pedroza are worthy to mention, as well..........

MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 08:42 PM   #39
My2Sense
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,971
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Ali quite easily, arguably 3 top10 at his weight, arguably 5 top, 2 of the hardest hitters ever at the weight and beating all manner of styles. Then theres the fact his reign lasted the 16years. No one else comes close

Anyone picking Monzon is nuts/biased, with his resume of past it WWs and plodding B class middles, he doesnt even have the best MW title run
But Ali's challengers like Chuvalo, Mildenberger, London, Cooper, Bugner, Spinks, Shavers, Wepner, etc., etc. were all definite ATG HWs...
My2Sense is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 09:10 PM   #40
Popkins
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toker View Post
Louis

1. Quality of opposition
beat everyone avoided no one
What you have written under the name of the category bears no relation to the category itself.
Popkins is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 12:01 AM   #41
Brian123
ESB WORLD CHAMPION
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,383
vCash: 1000
Thumbs up Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty_son408 View Post
Benny Leonard reign as the lightweigh king was incredible. Dominated the lightweight class for almost a decade against arguably the best class in it's rich history.

Quality of Opposition: Wins over Dundee, Welsh, Britton, Kilbane, Kansas, Tendler, White, and Bartfield. Won't even mention him moving up to face two of the best WW of all time and coming up just short. 10/10

Quality of Performance: Obviously, his prime weight where he exhibited some of the best boxing skills ever seen. Not a lot of footage of him, but from what can be seen of him he was the total package.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Examination of Losses: The the most notable loss was his DQ loss to Britton as he hit him on the canvas after knocking him down. As reported Britton was well ahead in the fight and most likely would have gotten the decision victory. But this has nothing to do with exploits at the weight we're referring so back on topic lol. His notable losses were to Dundee, Callahan, Ritchie, Welsh, (*McLarnin*) in highly contested bouts which were before he even became champion (except Ritchie). He also avenged all loses except McLarnin which was the last fight of his career.

Longevity: Dominated the division for almost a decade and held the crowned for 7 years before being battered by McLarnin in his last fight. Also, as stated, faced arguably the best talent in quality and quantity the division has ever seen. I say his longevity rates at the top.
Well said-I could not agree more!
Brian123 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 12:24 AM   #42
Boxed Ears
Smugly Savvy Feelings
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, Esperantia
Posts: 24,931
vCash: 26664
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asero View Post
Still Hopkins
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 01:06 AM   #43
Boxed Ears
Smugly Savvy Feelings
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, Esperantia
Posts: 24,931
vCash: 26664
Default Re: The Greatest Title Reign In Boxing History?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeGuyMan View Post
Gonna throw the name of Ricardo Lopez out there, just because no one else has yet, and he at least deserves to be mentioned.
Has anarci not been on this thread yet? He's going to be either happy or mad that he didn't get there first.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013