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Old 03-18-2010, 06:38 AM   #1
mcvey
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Default "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

John L Sullivan,The man Jack referred to as Cap'n John ,when he was tormenting Jeffries.

Versus Jack Johnson. Prime for Prime

20rds Who wins ???????[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by mcvey; 03-18-2010 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:53 AM   #2
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

johnson easily
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

Johnson by a mile. John L. was a tough S.O.B., so I could see it lasting the full distance, but I think there would be times during the bout where Lil' Arthur would toy with The Boston Strongboy. Johnson W 20.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

Hey, Mcvey, make it a poll if you want, buddy.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

Sullivan 1882 vs Johnson 1906-1910, I'd go Johnson (unless Sullivan hits him).

If each came along each others time I'd favor Sullivan (unless he decides not to train (and Johnson does)).
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

This would not be an easy fight for Johnson by any stretch of the imagination.

Sullivan had blinding handspeed, applied lots of pressure, and was a cerebral fighter in his own right. He seems to have been adept at destroying small slick boxers.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
This would not be an easy fight for Johnson by any stretch of the imagination.

Sullivan had blinding handspeed, applied lots of pressure, and was a cerebral fighter in his own right. He seems to have been adept at destroying small slick boxers.
Sullivan was described as being a revelation ,fast afoot ,with good hand speed ,very aggressive ,with one punch ko power, I doubt his like had been seen among the heavies when he suddenly appeared on the fistic scene.[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]Against Kilrain 1889


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Old 03-18-2010, 05:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Sullivan was described as being a revelation ,fast afoot ,with good hand speed ,very aggressive ,with one punch ko power, I doubt his like had been seen among the heavies when he suddenly appeared on the fistic scene.
I am certain that you are right.

Before Sullivan there had been smaller fighters around the 160lb mark who were fast and technicaly adept, and larger fighters who were somewhat limited.

When Sullivan came allong there had been nothing like him in living memory.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

Yep, I also think Sullivan has a good chance. We also should keep in mind this probably will be a no decision fight which means it only can be won by a KO. I don't think Johnson will KO Sullivan but I can definitly see Sullivan KOing Johnson. The outcome with the highest possibility is probably a no decision.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ]top left Jack in his prime 1910, middle in 1915 ,scratching for dough in exile.
Kod by Willard. Far right, fat and untrained against Moran.Paris.1914.Carpentier is the referee.Johnson loafed ,but still managed to break Moran's nose in 2 places with one uppercut.

Jack would need to be in shape against Cap'n John.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

What are the rules? How many rounds? How big is the ring? Gloves or no gloves?

I'll assume Queensberry rules.

The longer the fight and the smaller the ring, the better Sullivan's chances.

The shorter the fight and the larger the ring the better Johnson chances
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

John was way ahead of his time, no doubt. Most rank Jack Johnson well above John Sullivan, but he's certainly not out of John's league. In fact, because of styles, Jack would have no easy time with John in the ring...in my opinion. In a decision fight, I'd favor Jack...but only slightly in this head to head match up.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
What are the rules? How many rounds? How big is the ring? Gloves or no gloves?

I'll assume Queensberry rules.

The longer the fight and the smaller the ring, the better Sullivan's chances.

The shorter the fight and the larger the ring the better Johnson chances
The rules are Queensberry .Sullivan preferred to fight under these rather than LPR rules.No doubt Johnson would opt for them too.The rounds are allready stated in the first post .[20].
20 foot ring.
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Sullivan had his hands full with little Charley Mitchell .Above.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

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Sullivan had his hands full with little Charley Mitchell .Above.
Not really.

Their first fight under queensbury rules was a masacre.

Their second fight under LPR rules only lasted a long time because Mitchell repeatedly went down without being hit to gain 30 seconds respite.

We have all read and ridiculed the article in which Gene Tunney states that Jack Dempsey could have beaten the four best contenders of the 1950s in the same night.

John L Sullivan probably could have beaten say Charlie Mitcell, Paddy Ryan, Alf Greenfield and Joe Goss in the same night in four rounds apeice.

His prime reign probably represents the biggest disparity between the quality of the champion and the quality of the top contenders of any era in heavyweight history.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: "Cap'n John" v "Lil Arthur"

With no film its hard to say just how good or over rated Sullivan was. I do think Sullivan was a bit faster than he's given credit for. I also think Sullivan resume of wins on the thin side. If a match with Peter Jackson could not be made, then why not Slavin, Goddard, Choynski, Fitzsimmons, or Dooley? Slavin, Choynski, or Goddard would rate as Sullivan's best win if he fought them, and defeated them.

Without going off into a tangent with you, I think Johnson struggled when he was matched vs. prime or near prime guys who were close to his size. See the Choynski, Griffin, and Hart defeats. As a champion in his prime, Johnson had a news draw with a past his best 160ish pound O'Brien, and a dubious draw with journeyman in Jim Battling Johnson.

So who wins? I try to rate the man, not the time he fought in. Had Sullivan came around a bit later, he would not have been the bridge from London rules to Queesberry, and would be a bit more polished as a boxer At least that is my take.

In a 20 round match, I'd favor Johnson via decision under the assumption he's in top shape. I also think it could go either way as Sullivan was certainly much better than many who defeated, drew, or gave Johnson a hard nights work in defeat.
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