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Old 03-20-2010, 02:36 AM   #1
Boxed Ears
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Default Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

Which Heavyweights do you feel should definitely be in the top 100 P4P fighters of all time, without question, and which ones (if any others) do you feel have an arguable but strong enough case for it?
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

Muhammed Ali
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
Lennox Lewis
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Evander Holyfield
Mike Tyson
Jack Johnson
Floyd Patterson
Sonny Liston
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Which Heavyweights do you feel should definitely be in the top 100 P4P fighters of all time, without question, and which ones (if any others) do you feel have an arguable but strong enough case for it?
The ones under 200 pounds that accomplished something in the light heavyweight class or cruiser class such as Fitzsimmons ( Middle too for Fitz ) Tunney, Chalres, Spinks, and Holyfield or the ones who fought at heavy under 200 pounds that were the best of their time, such as Dempsey, Marciano or Louis.
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

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The ones under 200 pounds that accomplished something in the light heavyweight class or cruiser class such as Fitzsimmons ( Middle too for Fitz ) Tunney, Chalres, Spinks, and Holyfield or the ones who fought at heavy under 200 pounds that were the best of their time, such as Dempsey, Marciano or Louis.
the meaning of p4p isn't climb a ladder and take a shit on the big man's face
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

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the meaning of p4p isn't climb a ladder and take a shit on the big man's face
Part of pound for pound is proving you can win in multiple weight classes. The other part is dominance in those weight classes, and quality of opposition defeated.

Since heavyweights can only fight themselves, they can not win in difference weight classes, or fight champions in other weight classes.
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Part of pound for pound is proving you can win in multiple weight classes. The other part is dominance in those weight classes, and quality of opposition defeated.

Since heavyweights can only fight themselves, they can not win in difference weight classes, or fight champions in other weight classes.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Part of pound for pound is proving you can win in multiple weight classes. The other part is dominance in those weight classes, and quality of opposition defeated.

Since heavyweights can only fight themselves, they can not win in difference weight classes, or fight champions in other weight classes.
No p4p is how relatively good you are against guys the same size as you. And the heavyweights fight guys over several dozen invisible weight classes if you see it that way. They fight guys at ...
200lbs(heavyweight)...
205lbs(slightly heavierweight)...
212lbs(super slightly heavierweight)...
216lbs(heavierweight)...
222lbs(really bigweight)
226lbs(really really bigweight)
230lbs(light meatheadweight)
235lbs(meatheadweight)
240lbs(super meatheadweight)
247lbs(possibly roidweight)
254lbs(roidweight)
260lbs(burgerkingweight)
268lbs(bigmacweight)
275lbs(half-bearweight)
288lbs(double-humanweight)
300lbs+(freak of natureweight)
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

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Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
No p4p is how relatively good you are against guys the same size as you. And the heavyweights fight guys over several dozen invisible weight classes if you see it that way. They fight guys at ...
200lbs(heavyweight)...
205lbs(slightly heavierweight)...
212lbs(super slightly heavierweight)...
216lbs(heavierweight)...
222lbs(really bigweight)
226lbs(really really bigweight)
230lbs(light meatheadweight)
235lbs(meatheadweight)
240lbs(super meatheadweight)
247lbs(possibly roidweight)
254lbs(roidweight)
260lbs(burgerkingweight)
268lbs(bigmacweight)
275lbs(half-bearweight)
288lbs(double-humanweight)
300lbs+(freak of natureweight)
Good post, I wanted to post something like this. Dont you think HWs get short shrift a lot of the the time p4p? When a 210lber beats a 240lber he will often be credited less than he deserves. The HWs are the only weight class not guaranteed to be within 10lbs of their opponent on fight night, and maybe deserve more credit than they get.

It does make them difficult to rank, you cant just look at their record, you have to investigate what they weighed in at for their most important fights and how often they were fighting the bigger man. For someone like Holyfield, I think he should certainly be ranked higher p4p than he is HW but the only HWs to creep onto peoples p4p lists seem to be Ali and Louis.
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

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Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
No p4p is how relatively good you are against guys the same size as you.
Exactly buddy. I'm fed up having to say more or less this every time "P4P" is brought up. It is a concept which allows comparisons between weight classes, not meant to undermine the heavier ones. If a fighter has great skills, they're still great skills even if they didn't happen to be born a midget.
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Old 03-20-2010, 05:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Part of pound for pound is proving you can win in multiple weight classes. The other part is dominance in those weight classes, and quality of opposition defeated.

Since heavyweights can only fight themselves, they can not win in difference weight classes, or fight champions in other weight classes.
So we cant possibly rate say a Marvin Hagler a career MW in a p4p sense??????
I dont see the difference of him staying at MW and a career HW
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Old 03-21-2010, 04:52 AM   #11
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

P4p is different from ATG list.

P4p is biased against lewis and the klits.
ATG does not take into account the size of the heavyweight fighter
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: Heavyweights in the top 100 P4P Lists?

I do think that some of the very good heavys do get forgotten at P4p. And some of the smaller ones do tend to get overated in regard to the bigger ones.

Certainly Joe Louis is and should be highly rated, as the point has been made, he has a reign as good or better than the likes of Hagler and Monzon. To be honest, Alis reign may even be as impressive as Ray Robinson's, when you think about it.

Of the smaller guys, Rocky is a good shout. For a start, he is closer to LOuis and Ali as heavys, than most give hime credit for. Also, He ko Charles and Moore (both of whom are in many people's top 5-10 p4p greats, at a weight which was very close to their best weights) and he himself was never beaten against bigger oponents. Which other P 4P great has ever done that? when i think about it, he is probably the most underated p 4 P fighter ever.

Obviously Sam Langford is a lock, as is Tunney and Spinks who were both mainly light heavys. And Holyfield must also be up there. Tyson was always considered p4p no 1 at the peak of his reign, so maybe that is one forgotten part of the equasion in considering p4p legacies. HOw many p4p greats were actually considered (or would have been) the best p4p fighters during their day. I think Louis definitely would have been. I am not so sure about others.

Actually, i think that if there was a mythical lineal P4P title, it might have some interesting results.
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