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Old 03-20-2010, 06:02 AM   #1
McGrain
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Default Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

I started a thread on Griffith's unique KO victory over Ortega last week:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZ6ue1giqw[/ame]


My2Sense was good enough to upload the contriversial seventh round at the back of this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpYH_fckszE[/ame]


And The GreatA linked in West's upload of the first fight:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O5Teocj_Ys[/ame]



For stretches in these clips, Griffith looks almost unboxable. He's superb on the inside, superb on the outside, controls distance with deft footwork, throws very fast very hurtful shots, he has cracking punch resistance at the weight and he dips into a variety of styles to deal with the opponent. Cracking Ortega's chin is testimony to the heights a peak Griffith could s****e.

Who do you guys see beating him on this type of form at the 147 limit?
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Old 03-20-2010, 06:06 AM   #2
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

Luis Rodriguez - 4 times.
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Old 03-20-2010, 06:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

Not alot of guys.

SS has said Rodriguez, I havent seen enough of him (or their fights) to pass comment on that.

I think Thomas Hearns has a good chance, he has the height and reach aswell as the boxing skills to use them. His jab could keep Griffith off balance and his firepower could keep Griffith off of him. But Griffith has the fitness and strength to get inside late and perhaps wear him down. Tough one to call.

Ray Leonard is another close one. Adaptable (as though not as adaptable as Griffith) with fats hands and good combinations. I can see this being an edgy affair with both men constantly changing tactics to try and get the best of the other man. Leonard has a slight edge in offence but Griffith is more well rounded. Again tough to call.

Ray Robinson IMO has the best chance. AT Welterweight he appeared to be more aggresive, and more of a stalker. As well as being an offensive machine, with fast hands and powerful combinations, he was also strong and fast. Griffith could perhaps manage to make Robinson edgy with feints, but I think Robinson is too fast and will be able to get off first and hurt Griffith for a UD.

Jose Napoles beat an older Griffith, but Griffith was still good but Napoles absoloutly dominated him. Napoles smooth head movement and hard counter punches would give Griffith problems and Griffiths best chance is to get inside but Napole's handspeed bodes him well here as he is able to land fast combinations on the inside. I see a UD for Napoles but closer than their fight maybe 10-5 or 9-6, as Griffith is able to better apply his strength and pressure.

Now here is my shock pick. Pipino Cuevas. A massive puncher who really was brutal. Healso started quick in all his fights and could do damage from the word 'go'. Griffith was able to be knocked out or hurt early, and if any Welterweight could hurt him Cuevas has a chance. If Cuevas caught Griffith early and blasted him out, I wouldnt be surprised. There is a small possibility for a Cuevas win and it is small. Overrall, I would pick Griffith to win.
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist View Post
Luis Rodriguez - 4 times.
That was my answer.
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

Hold on, let me ask the general forum. ...

...
...
...

Okay, I'm back. Half said Pacquiao, 30% said Mayweather and 20% said "Hoo da fux emile griffith?"
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

hearns, leonard and sugar ray robinson at welter
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:40 AM   #7
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Hold on, let me ask the general forum. ...

...
...
...

Okay, I'm back. Half said Pacquiao, 30% said Mayweather and 20% said "Hoo da fux emile griffith?"


Surely some would have said Margarito and Cotto.

Anyway, my pick of guys that beat him:

Ray Leonard
Luis Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan
Ray Robinson
Jose Napoles

50/50's would be:

Carmen Basilio
Tommy Hearns
Billy Graham
Pernell Whitaker


Good chances but less than 50/50's would be:

Barney Ross
Henry Armstrong
Wilfred Benitez
Fritzie Zivic
Bobby ****s



Ok chances, but Griffith should win:

Donarld Curry
Marlon Starling
Gil Turner
Felix Trinidad
Oscar de la Hoya
Jimmy McLarnin


I've left out guys like Walker, Walcott, Ryan, Lewis, Britton etc. from the equation for lack of footage.
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

I have forgotten Gavilan, Basilio and Whittaker and too a lesser extent Ross.

Last edited by GPater11093; 03-20-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

i forgot about benitez
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:35 AM   #10
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

I thought I mentioned Benitez, obviously not
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:52 AM   #11
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

Benitez has a good chance if the bout is kept at range and Benitez can dictate the pace with his jab and counter punching but Griffith isnt going to let that happen and IMo will be able to impose himself on Benitez and force an inside fight. Benitez does land counters as Griffith gets inside but once in there Griffith should have sucess. Still an upset (Benitez win) wouldnt be too shocking.

Gavilan is an interesting one. He has the speed to be first against Griffith and is the better ring general on the inside he has the speed and strength to match Griffith. I can see Gavilan really making Griffith work as he controlls centre ring and lands hard counter shots. This is one guy I expect to win.

Basilio is perhaps the only Welterweight stronger than Griffith. He is going to set a fast pace and keep Griffith going backwards. Basilio's strength negates Griffiths inside game IMO. I think a super disciplined Griffith could edge out a 8-7 sort of decision over Basilio due to his superior manuevrability and better jab but even then it is close as hell.

I cant really imagine a Whittaker vs Griffith fight that well, how do you guys see it?

A bout with Barney Ross is an interesting one. Both guys are solid fundamentalists who are brilliant if workmanlike boxers who are fairly aggresive. I think Ross has the better jab and is just as apadtable and has a higher workrate but Griffith is stronger and IMO has the better combinations. I just think Ross will get caught up on the inside where Griffith has the advanatges. Nevertheless it is a very exciting fight IMO and very close although Griffith would win.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

I think Benitez is too lazy a fighter to win. He has the skills to, but I can just see Griffith outworking him, and winning in a s****py affair where he doesn't land anything too cleanly, but still outworks him with shots to the body.

I think there could be a bit of the Rodriguez-Griffith blueprint in a Pea-Griffith fight (Pea working the jab, and then doing the body shot combos on the inside when Griffith gets in close), but the strength issue is the main concern for Whitaker and what could see him undone.

Agree with your take on Griffith vs. Ross G.
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist View Post
I think Benitez is too lazy a fighter to win. He has the skills to, but I can just see Griffith outworking him, and winning in a s****py affair where he doesn't land anything too cleanly, but still outworks him with shots to the body.
I also think Benitez lacks physical strength. But yeh he could be outworked.

Quote:
I think there could be a bit of the Rodriguez-Griffith blueprint in a Pea-Griffith fight (Pea working the jab, and then doing the body shot combos on the inside when Griffith gets in close), but the strength issue is the main concern for Whitaker and what could see him undone.
I have only seen 3 rounds of LMR vs Griffith so cant comment. Pernell is probbaly a more skileld infighter but Griffith is stronger.

Quote:
Agree with your take on Griffith vs. Ross G.
How do you see Griffith vs Graham?
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
How do you see Griffith vs Graham?
I think tough boxer types with good work rates are probably the best style to beat Griffith. Graham fits that bill.

I can definitely see him causing Emile some problems with his good jab and educated body work on the inside. Together with a solid defense, he of course has a granite chin, so he should see of anythng Griffith throws at him and won't be discouraged.

Griffith of course has a strength advantage, and maybe even a bit of a speed advantage, especially with combinations. I can see him using some flurries and moving in and wrestling to good effect.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: Who beats a focused, primed Emile Griffith?

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist View Post
I think tough boxer types with good work rates are probably the best style to beat Griffith. Graham fits that bill.

I can definitely see him causing Emile some problems with his good jab and educated body work on the inside. Together with a solid defense, he of course has a granite chin, so he should see of anythng Griffith throws at him and won't be discouraged.

Griffith of course has a strength advantage, and maybe even a bit of a speed advantage, especially with combinations. I can see him using some flurries and moving in and wrestling to good effect.
Aye fair enough, only seen Graham vs Gavilan III so dont know too much about Graham.
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