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Old 03-21-2010, 05:28 PM   #46
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

OP was original and entertaining but, Addie is right. wait what?...
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:36 PM   #47
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

Its a good question, Norris has some ATG talents but could make mistakes and had a shakey chin. I think he certainly beats Duran, Cuevas and Benitez if hes up for them. I would favour Leonard and Hearns to get to his chin though, although who knows maybe he'd always have Leonards number, I doubt it but its a possibility easily dismissed, that was a hell of a performance
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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Its a good question, Norris has some ATG talents but could make mistakes and had a shakey chin. I think he certainly beats Duran, Cuevas and Benitez if hes up for them. I would favour Leonard and Hearns to get to his chin though, although who knows maybe he'd always have Leonards number, I doubt it but its a possibility easily dismissed, that was a hell of a performance
Good post Double-P. Thing is that Norris wasn't a welterweight so all these match ups would have to be at 154 to get the best out of Terry. And I agree that he beats Cuevas, Benitez, Duran at 154, all three were great fighters but none have a chance at Terry at 154. I think Terry would always have Ray's number in the same vein that Barkley had another ATG number in Hearns.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:50 PM   #49
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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Great post Rooster and as you pointed out awhile ago when Leonard couldn't find an opening he did nothing as shown in the early and middle stages of the Hearns fight. And Ray would struggle to find openings on Terry and Terry had stamina for days so he cant count on Terry tiring out.
Benny, Benny, Benny. Every time I try to take you off my ignore list, you pull yourself back in.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:50 PM   #50
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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Good post Double-P. Thing is that Norris wasn't a welterweight so all these match ups would have to be at 154 to get the best out of Terry. And I agree that he beats Cuevas, Benitez, Duran at 154, all three were great fighters but none have a chance at Terry at 154. I think Terry would always have Ray's number in the same vein that Barkley had another ATG number in Hearns.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:51 PM   #51
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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Benny, Benny, Benny. Every time I try to take you off my ignore list, you pull yourself back in.
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:22 PM   #52
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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Good post Double-P. Thing is that Norris wasn't a welterweight so all these match ups would have to be at 154 to get the best out of Terry. And I agree that he beats Cuevas, Benitez, Duran at 154, all three were great fighters but none have a chance at Terry at 154. I think Terry would always have Ray's number in the same vein that Barkley had another ATG number in Hearns.
I think his style is perfect to beat Benitez much like Leonard beat him. Duran/Cuevas just too small past their best. Hearns I think is likely all wrong for him but I wouldnt completely write him off given Norris had the speed/power to bother Hearns chin himself

Anyway maybe another good thread would be Norris v the WWs of his time, who I think he largely has a better shot to dominate against. I think he could have been the first to beat Whitaker, I think his speed would see him land first on Tito and he could win that, Ike is too ponderous to beat him and he might have had the style to do a younger DLH to. I wonder bet a load

Another thing about Norris is he was probably the type who needed to be hyped for a fight, I dont think he'd have lost to Simon if he was up for it, I dont think he'd ake the same mistakes.

Good movie Dead Prezs
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:33 PM   #53
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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Guys who get ko'd by glorified journeymen like Iran Barkley won't last against Norris.
that's true. Hearns did tend to get shaken and it didnt take much to do the job. Norris-Hearns could go either way
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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...And guys who almost get sparked by Troy Waters won't last against Ray Leonard.
and guys who get decked by smaller men like Howard will most likely get decked by Norris..and then drop the decision. Norris is much quicker on the draw
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:56 PM   #55
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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I think his style is perfect to beat Benitez much like Leonard beat him. Duran/Cuevas just too small past their best. Hearns I think is likely all wrong for him but I wouldnt completely write him off given Norris had the speed/power to bother Hearns chin himself

Anyway maybe another good thread would be Norris v the WWs of his time, who I think he largely has a better shot to dominate against. I think he could have been the first to beat Whitaker, I think his speed would see him land first on Tito and he could win that, Ike is too ponderous to beat him and he might have had the style to do a younger DLH to. I wonder bet a load

Another thing about Norris is he was probably the type who needed to be hyped for a fight, I dont think he'd have lost to Simon if he was up for it, I dont think he'd ake the same mistakes.

Good movie Dead Prezs
I agree with everything you said Double-P. I favor Norris over all those fighters you mentioned, even my childhood hero Trinidad. Whitaker knew better than to fight Norris which is why he chose the limited Julio Cesar Vasquez to win his title at 154. I favor McCallum over Norris due to size and great punch resistance but Terry would give a good account of himself against McCallum and not get blitzed like my man Julian Jackson unfortunately. Hearns like I said is 50/50.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:49 PM   #56
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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I agree with everything you said Double-P. I favor Norris over all those fighters you mentioned, even my childhood hero Trinidad. Whitaker knew better than to fight Norris which is why he chose the limited Julio Cesar Vasquez to win his title at 154. I favor McCallum over Norris due to size and great punch resistance but Terry would give a good account of himself against McCallum and not get blitzed like my man Julian Jackson unfortunately. Hearns like I said is 50/50.
Whitaker even struggled against Vasquez mainly due to it being a rough fight. I have it it's pretty ugly but somehow entertaining like Pep-Saddler but maybe not that bad. I agree with both of you that Terry could've been the first to fairly beat Pernell. Not saying that just because I'm a fan of Norris but I'm also a fan of Whitaker's.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:36 PM   #57
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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Great post Rooster and as you pointed out awhile ago when Leonard couldn't find an opening he did nothing as shown in the early and middle stages of the Hearns fight. And Ray would struggle to find openings on Terry and Terry had stamina for days so he cant count on Terry tiring out.
Thank you brother Bennie.

You have all borne witness how I have elevated Leonard's status to conqueror of Pryor, Curry, and even McCallum and Jackson but this fight with Norris boils down to styles.

Between two boxers, most often the faster of the two is going to win as we saw between Camacho and Howard Davis

Ray had his chance. He had the vastly superior experience, his five titles, and came in as the overwhelming favorite. I can see why everyone was expecting Ray to add another one and continue the dynasty but let's remember, this fight wasnt even close. Ray's combinations were working but what good if you have an opponent that wont stand there for him to hit?

It' was Terry's speed and movement that won him the day. Ray seems to have real problems with the more multi talented boxer punchers

Had Ray won a close decision or even lost a close decision, I could then project leonard as the winner going back to the glory days of the welterweight division but after vewing the mastery of Norris, how can I?

I look at the Holmes-Ali fight in which Ali really was shot, and I still can't say proof positive, that Ali would beat Larry.

I think that relying on Norris' chin to let him down when he made 13 sucessful defenses, is just too much to hope for.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:51 PM   #58
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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I agree with everything you said Double-P. I favor Norris over all those fighters you mentioned, even my childhood hero Trinidad. Whitaker knew better than to fight Norris which is why he chose the limited Julio Cesar Vasquez to win his title at 154. I favor McCallum over Norris due to size and great punch resistance but Terry would give a good account of himself against McCallum and not get blitzed like my man Julian Jackson unfortunately. Hearns like I said is 50/50.
I suppose he could have chosen guys that were beating Norris around the time like Santana and Brown. Instead he chose the limited Vasquez.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:56 PM   #59
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

Terry's skills are great and he is fast, but his chin just does not hold up against the top guys.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:00 AM   #60
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Default Re: What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

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I suppose he could have chosen guys that were beating Norris around the time like Santana and Brown. Instead he chose the limited Vasquez.
I don't blame Pernell for fighting Vasquez instead of Norris, but he did choose to fight Vasquez over Norris knowing that he couldn't beat Norris.

And yeah Santana had a lot to be proud of after he faked injury twice to "win" and "defend" the WBC title.
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