Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-22-2010, 02:51 PM   #1
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,029
vCash: 1000
Default Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpS-gj2qU24&feature=related[/ame]
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-22-2010, 02:58 PM   #2
PH|LLA
ESB Junkie
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YUL
Posts: 38,158
vCash: 5685
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

good night Tyson
PH|LLA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:02 PM   #3
manbearpig
A Scottish Noob
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 1185
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Mike's hands are ridiculously fast when he's doing pad work in that video.
manbearpig is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:15 PM   #4
PetethePrince
Slick & Redheaded
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

He also said this on another TV program he did looking back at the old champions I think.

This is what Cus believed. God forbid Patterson if Cus advised him to do this if they had fought.

I think smothering or pressing him works for his advantage. Marciano talks about the Quarry vs Frazier fight and someone asks if he thinks Frazier is similar. Rocky agreed he was a lot like himself. He mentions how Quarry fought the complete wrong fight. Making it a phone-booth fight made it such an advantage for Frazier. Marciano would've loved to fight like that, but instead he had to follow and find the cute slick type boxers.

I don't quite agree with this belief, but it's interesting.
PetethePrince is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:16 PM   #5
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Great video, I havent seen Rocky-Savold an interesing stylistic observation from Cus
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:21 PM   #6
PetethePrince
Slick & Redheaded
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Great video, I havent seen Rocky-Savold an interesing stylistic observation from Cus
Cus made the observation from the ****ell fight.

Layne basically tried this strategy and got battered. The extra weight and leaning did nothing. He was dead by round 4-5 and Rocky was just getting started. Crushing KO to end the fight.
PetethePrince is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:22 PM   #7
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,029
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
I think smothering or pressing him works for his advantage. Marciano talks about the Quarry vs Frazier fight and someone asks if he thinks Frazier is similar. Rocky agreed he was a lot like himself. He mentions how Quarry fought the complete wrong fight. Making it a phone-booth fight made it such an advantage for Frazier. Marciano would've loved to fight like that, but instead he had to follow and find the cute slick type boxers.

But this is the catch-22 when fighting Marciano. If you give him space, he invades it. If you ceed ground he forces you to move. My own opinion is that Rocky is near immune to the box-mover type, certainly he smashed down 2 very very good ones in his day, it's just to much to have him boring after you over fifteen rounds.

If you smother him you take away his stakling rythym. You also give yourself a chance to outpoint him. I think Frazier enjoyed advantages Rocky doesn't have inside because of his superior handspeed and accuracy. In there, I think that a fighter with great punch resistance would have a chance to outland him with speed. It calls for a real concentration of assets that most fighters just don't have, but that's why Rocky is so hard to beat, you can't beat him with just the right plan you need to be the right man...all things being equal I like the Mike/Cus plan.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:26 PM   #8
PH|LLA
ESB Junkie
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YUL
Posts: 38,158
vCash: 5685
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

yea but you know that if you start smothering Marciano you are in for a long ass rugged back and forth brawl. You will hurt him, he will hurt you. And the bottom line is that Marciano's stamina is legendary. Tyson pressing Marciano over 15 rounds can only result in Tyson getting tired and ktfo IMHO
PH|LLA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:27 PM   #9
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,029
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Tyson can't do 15 rounds in the pocket with Rocky, that's for sure. As to Mike getting KO'd? Not to sure about that one.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:28 PM   #10
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Cus made the observation from the ****ell fight. .
Oops mixed the name up
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:31 PM   #11
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
But this is the catch-22 when fighting Marciano. If you give him space, he invades it. If you ceed ground he forces you to move. My own opinion is that Rocky is near immune to the box-mover type, certainly he smashed down 2 very very good ones in his day, it's just to much to have him boring after you over fifteen rounds.

If you smother him you take away his stakling rythym. You also give yourself a chance to outpoint him. I think Frazier enjoyed advantages Rocky doesn't have inside because of his superior handspeed and accuracy. In there, I think that a fighter with great punch resistance would have a chance to outland him with speed. It calls for a real concentration of assets that most fighters just don't have, but that's why Rocky is so hard to beat, you can't beat him with just the right plan you need to be the right man...all things being equal I like the Mike/Cus plan.
Except he wasnt far from losing from 1 of those boxer movers and supposedly lost to another boxer mover in Lastarza. What if he faces big stronger boxer movers like Ali, Holmes, Vitali where he has to close more range, gets hits harder and more regularly and cant break down the more durable opponent?
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:35 PM   #12
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,029
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Except he wasnt far from losing from 1 of those boxer movers and supposedly lost to another boxer mover in Lastarza. What if he faces big stronger boxer movers like Ali, Holmes, Vitali where he has to close more range, gets hits harder and more regularly and cant break down the more durable opponent?

You'd class Vitali as a boxer-mover?

Yeah, nearly is the word, I think, but as to breaking these guys down, it's not just cracking opponents that he has going for him, it's SuzieQ too. I'd pick Ali to out-box him, having said that and Holmes has a very very good chance too, if you wanted to make him a narrow favourite I wouldn't object.

What i'm saying is, Rocky wouldn't lose to box-moving underdogs. It's possible for me to imagine fighters who would be an underdog to Rocky, of the type that comes inside and toughs it out, who might upset him (naming no names). But I don't see him getting upset by a boxer mover.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 04:01 PM   #13
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
You'd class Vitali as a boxer-mover?

Yeah, nearly is the word, I think, but as to breaking these guys down, it's not just cracking opponents that he has going for him, it's SuzieQ too. I'd pick Ali to out-box him, having said that and Holmes has a very very good chance too, if you wanted to make him a narrow favourite I wouldn't object.

What i'm saying is, Rocky wouldn't lose to box-moving underdogs. It's possible for me to imagine fighters who would be an underdog to Rocky, of the type that comes inside and toughs it out, who might upset him (naming no names). But I don't see him getting upset by a boxer mover.
Vitalis a hard 1 to classify, he certainly isnt in the classical sense and his technique is none too pleasing. But he likes to control fights with his jab and right, keep it at range, and uses backward/lateral movement and leaning out of range to evade pressure fighters advances. All of those make him a boxer mover in this type of match up

I wouldnt pick Marciano to lose to anyone I personally classified an underdog
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 04:08 PM   #14
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,029
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
I wouldnt pick Marciano to lose to anyone I personally classified an underdog
In the betting, shall we say.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 05:12 PM   #15
PetethePrince
Slick & Redheaded
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
But this is the catch-22 when fighting Marciano. If you give him space, he invades it. If you ceed ground he forces you to move. My own opinion is that Rocky is near immune to the box-mover type, certainly he smashed down 2 very very good ones in his day, it's just to much to have him boring after you over fifteen rounds.

If you smother him you take away his stakling rythym. You also give yourself a chance to outpoint him. I think Frazier enjoyed advantages Rocky doesn't have inside because of his superior handspeed and accuracy. In there, I think that a fighter with great punch resistance would have a chance to outland him with speed. It calls for a real concentration of assets that most fighters just don't have, but that's why Rocky is so hard to beat, you can't beat him with just the right plan you need to be the right man...all things being equal I like the Mike/Cus plan.
You're right I guess. I think it's a dangerous task. What you say makes sense. But a fighter like Patterson can't try this method. Any boxer-puncher must use the ring and must use angles and speed. If you devour the space those short arms will get in short shots, and eventually you'll move and he'll land square on you before you remember even signing the contract. I think if you're Evander Holyfield it's an interesting strategy. Take your speed and accuracy and make it a smothering contest. But Marciano just hows such tremendous P4P power and chin.

I still think a phonebooth fight breaks most guys down. ****ell didn't really press him in my view. He kind of popped in and out, but mostly retreated after a few rounds. His gameplan was to try re-injurying Rocky's nose. Night the right plan to do.

But if you watch the Layne fight you'll see the consequences of this strategy. Only the Frazier, Holyfield, and Dempsey's would be successful with this strategy. Obviously very big and strong powerfully fast HW like Tyson could employ this strategy... although with his speed it hinders his style but not having the space to land those bombs. Tyson was actually not the greatest in-fighter.

Lastly, it calls for a great interpretation of things. What is "pressing Marciano." Going after him? Not neccessarily smothering him, but perhaps being aggressive and going forward. It would take the right men to succeed trying this.
PetethePrince is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013