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Old 03-22-2010, 06:07 PM   #16
RockysSplitNose
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

I think Rock was definately the type of fighter you really did have to 'fight' -
Most who fought him, even ones who were primarily cagey boxers, did find themselves having to engage him - this is what Walcott did - he took it right to him and I don't think he could have fought him in any other way and been as successful - Sugar Ray Robinson for one, was once quoted as saying, Marciano, was the type of fighter "you really had to look for" and i think to some extent you had to really fight him that way rather run the whole time because I think it's harder to properly "find" a guy regularly enough when you running from them and letting him have the ball so to speak - so yeah i do see where Cus was coming from in what he told Tyson.

PS that bit of film shows the kind of rapour that Harry Carpenter had with the fighters - Tyson looks genuinely relaxed and happy in his company - he will be sadly missed and forever respected by boxing folk.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Marciano is so overrated its ridiculous. Cracks me up that people think Marciano would beat Tyson, or Frazier, or Quarry for that matter. Marciano feasted on one of the weakest HW divisions in history. His marquee wins were all older and past their primes and often times above their best weight. You say that moving into Marciano would play to Marcianos advantage. I say Marciano coming forward eating leather like he did would play to Tyson's. If Tyson could hit you he could hurt you. Marciano was there to be hit. If an ancient Joe Louis can break Marcianos nose and knock out his front teeth, and an old Charles can split his nose down the middle, I think a prime Tyson can stop Marciano and look impressive doing it.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

One point they made was true you can tell what is in a fighter when he comes back from the brink of defeat. Another thing was Patterson had the fastest hands of a punching heavyweight. The last observation by Cus about pressing Marciano may be true but just like hitting Larry Holmes with the right hand and Ali with the left hook it takes a certian type of fighter to be able to walk through the fire to do so and it is easily said than done.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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Marciano is so overrated its ridiculous. Cracks me up that people think Marciano would beat Tyson, or Frazier, or Quarry for that matter. Marciano feasted on one of the weakest HW divisions in history. His marquee wins were all older and past their primes and often times above their best weight. You say that moving into Marciano would play to Marcianos advantage. I say Marciano coming forward eating leather like he did would play to Tyson's. If Tyson could hit you he could hurt you. Marciano was there to be hit. If an ancient Joe Louis can break Marcianos nose and knock out his front teeth, and an old Charles can split his nose down the middle, I think a prime Tyson can stop Marciano and look impressive doing it.
Wow! Did Joe Louis really break Marciano's nose and knock out his front teeth?! Hadn't ever heard that before - jeez if he did that is nasty - Louis was still a very damaging type of puncher (almost unseeingly - if thats a word) Ez Charles face was also made a state from seemingly very few punches?? I have the Marciano-Louis fight with commentary from Marciano and Rocky never makes reference to those injuries though?? and he didn't look too bashed up?? tiny nic of the eye but his nose looked OK and have picture of him smiling in dressing room after and he didn't seem to be missing any teeth? Are you sure you have that right - Where did you hear that?
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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Marciano is so overrated its ridiculous. Cracks me up that people think Marciano would beat Tyson, or Frazier, or Quarry for that matter. Marciano feasted on one of the weakest HW divisions in history. His marquee wins were all older and past their primes and often times above their best weight. You say that moving into Marciano would play to Marcianos advantage. I say Marciano coming forward eating leather like he did would play to Tyson's. If Tyson could hit you he could hurt you. Marciano was there to be hit. If an ancient Joe Louis can break Marcianos nose and knock out his front teeth, and an old Charles can split his nose down the middle, I think a prime Tyson can stop Marciano and look impressive doing it.
He beat Joe Louis' ass
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:17 PM   #21
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
Wow! Did Joe Louis really break Marciano's nose and knock out his front teeth?! Hadn't ever heard that before - jeez if he did that is nasty - Louis was still a very damaging type of puncher (almost unseeingly - if thats a word) Ez Charles face was also made a state from seemingly very few punches?? I have the Marciano-Louis fight with commentary from Marciano and Rocky never makes reference to those injuries though?? and he didn't look too bashed up?? tiny nic of the eye but his nose looked OK and have picture of him smiling in dressing room after and he didn't seem to be missing any teeth? Are you sure you have that right - Where did you hear that?
No, Marciano's nose was bloody, but he wasn't missing any teeth. Joe Louis was a very damaging puncher, I don't think anyone walked away after fighting him without being busted up in some way. Mose had lumps and cuts.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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Marciano is so overrated its ridiculous. Cracks me up that people think Marciano would beat Tyson, or Frazier, or Quarry for that matter. Marciano feasted on one of the weakest HW divisions in history. His marquee wins were all older and past their primes and often times above their best weight. You say that moving into Marciano would play to Marcianos advantage. I say Marciano coming forward eating leather like he did would play to Tyson's. If Tyson could hit you he could hurt you. Marciano was there to be hit. If an ancient Joe Louis can break Marcianos nose and knock out his front teeth, and an old Charles can split his nose down the middle, I think a prime Tyson can stop Marciano and look impressive doing it.
That "old" Ezzard Charles was only 2 years older than Marciano, and he split Marciano's nose with an elbow, not a punch.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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Originally Posted by klompton View Post
Marciano is so overrated its ridiculous. Cracks me up that people think Marciano would beat Tyson, or Frazier, or Quarry for that matter. Marciano feasted on one of the weakest HW divisions in history. His marquee wins were all older and past their primes and often times above their best weight. You say that moving into Marciano would play to Marcianos advantage. I say Marciano coming forward eating leather like he did would play to Tyson's. If Tyson could hit you he could hurt you. Marciano was there to be hit. If an ancient Joe Louis can break Marciano's nose and knock out his front teeth, and an old Charles can split his nose down the middle, I think a prime Tyson can stop Marciano and look impressive doing it.
Rocky had too much heart for Tyson. The part about facing adversity was the part where Marciano got an A+ and Tyson a C. I don't know what book you got your information from but Louis never knocked out Marcianos teeth or broke his nose. Funny thing about writers is sometimes they can write very well but not know Jack Shit about the facts.

There is a friend of mine he is a highly educated guy but his is an educated idiot. His education could not help that fact that he is an idiot.

Marciano had some minor bruises in fights other than the accidental elbow that split his nose in the Charles fight but other than that he held up pretty good at the seams.

I take an experienced 32 yrs old Charles or a 38 yr old Walcott to upset some of the best moving up to the 60's 70's 80's and 90's but that type of schooling ground in their exists no more.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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Originally Posted by klompton View Post
Marciano is so overrated its ridiculous. Cracks me up that people think Marciano would beat Tyson, or Frazier, or Quarry for that matter. Marciano feasted on one of the weakest HW divisions in history. His marquee wins were all older and past their primes and often times above their best weight. You say that moving into Marciano would play to Marcianos advantage. I say Marciano coming forward eating leather like he did would play to Tyson's. If Tyson could hit you he could hurt you. Marciano was there to be hit. If an ancient Joe Louis can break Marcianos nose and knock out his front teeth, and an old Charles can split his nose down the middle, I think a prime Tyson can stop Marciano and look impressive doing it.
Would you like to provide a source for that, so that we may determine its bullshititude? Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:48 AM   #25
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."


I guess I can sort of see some logic in that, if it is meant to say that you have to try to stop Rocky's forward momentum, try to push him back or break up his rhythm, (sort of similar to what Mosley did to Margarito) but coming in like that to a hard puncher or swarmer (or god forbid, both) is a very dangerous strategy for you if you don't pull it off perfectly.

Ideally if I was going to lay a game plan like that out for a fighter, I'd want my fighter to have a height and strength advantage, and already be a strong, come forward fighter. (Think Foreman coming forward on Frazier and pushing Joe back).
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:13 AM   #26
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Haha.So if you were Marciano or Tyson's corner what would your strategy be for each fighter?

Let's forget weight.

I think Tyson had slight reach advantage and was distinctly faster in hand and foot speed.

I think Marciano more hurtful with his one punch power on the inside and equal on the outside with his hooks.

Different styles. I think Marciano would try to get inside Mike by lunging in with his punches and then try to outwork him on the inside.
Mike would try to use his jab on the outside and counter Marciano with combinations so as not let him get to work on the inside.

I don't see why a super-aggressive style with lots of punches thrown shouldn't work for Mike in the first few rounds as long as keeps the Rock off-balance and unable to set himself for his punches. It would work against him in the later rounds though.

Last edited by Arka; 03-23-2010 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:28 AM   #27
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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Marciano is so overrated its ridiculous. Cracks me up that people think Marciano would beat Tyson, or Frazier, or Quarry for that matter.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:33 AM   #28
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

only dempsey is more overrated at heavy than marciano.tyson has every advantage there is over rocky and would ruin him.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:52 AM   #29
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

Prime Tyson beats Prime Marciano all day and everyday
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:39 AM   #30
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Default Re: Tyson on beating Marciano: "You have to press him."

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There is a friend of mine he is a highly educated guy but his is an educated idiot. His education could not help that fact that he is an idiot.
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