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View Poll Results: Who's the greatest pound for pound of all time?
Sugar Ray Robinson 23 42.59%
Harry Greb 12 22.22%
Henry Armstrong 4 7.41%
Willie Pep 1 1.85%
Muhammad Ali 5 9.26%
Roberto Duran 3 5.56%
Sugar Ray Leonard 6 11.11%
Pernell Whitaker 0 0%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-22-2010, 08:26 PM   #1
Abdullah
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Default Who's the greatest?

I know these threads get started often, but I don't get tired of them. Who was the greatest fighter, pound for pound, who ever lived? My personal pick is Sugar Ray Robinson with Harry Greb a close second. How about you?
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

I used to agree with you. Now I have Harry Greb at #1, with Sugar Ray Robinson at a distant second.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

Sorry guys, I had "other" on there, but I messed it up. If you have another fighter, and really you shouldn't, but it's all a matter of opinion, then please list your pick.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

Seems to be constant mix between Sugar, Greb, and Langford. In the grand scheme they all have a claim to #1. As far the resume department is concerned Greb trumps everyone and Langford in that regard should be above Robinson. Robinson however displayed the greatest skillset of any boxer ever recorded and dominated two of the richest classes in the sports history, 1 loss out his 1st 100 fights or so and none at Welter. It's a judgement call in all honesty, theirs no wrong answer out of the three.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:36 PM   #5
Abdullah
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
I used to agree with you. Now I have Harry Greb at #1, with Sugar Ray Robinson at a distant second.
You know Stonehands, when I first started reading on Greb, I would have listed him near the bottom of a top ten list. I guess because of the no fight footage aspect. Then, the more I read, the higher I rate him. It almost pains me not to list him as number one. I haven't read the Fearless Harry Greb yet, but it should arrive any day. I don't yet have an official top ten p4p list, because I think it really takes years to examine all of these great fighters careers before you can decide on something like that. But, like I said, the more you read about Harry, the higher any sane boxing fan would rate him. He clearly has the greatest resume in boxing history. One day, I may be in your company in that regard.

Another thing, the criteria here isn't just greatest resume. It is also head to head. Meaning, if these guys were the same size, style vs. style who would win. But, even head to head, I think Greb would beat Robinson at middleweight, maybe even two out of three. But, pound for pound, at this moment in my life, I still rate Robinson #1.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

I voted for Armstrong, though I can just as well see a case for Robinson or Greb. However, I think those three are the only ones on that list that have a genuine claim to being the absolute #1 ATG. I think Langford, Charles, and possibly Benny Leonard have better claims to that spot than the others on that list.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

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Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
and really you shouldn't,
What in the world did Muhammed Ali (for example) do that say Bob Fitzsimmons didnt do. Or what did Roberto Duran do that Sam Langford couldnt and didnt do? Why is Sugar Ray Leonard a better fighter than say Tommy Ryan. Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Benny Leonard, Carlos Monzon, the list is endless of fighters who could be considered. Many of whom really have a much stronger case than several on the list. Saying that you really shouln't have anyone else is quite frankly, wrong.

Especially when the greatest ever (bob fitzsimmons) isnt even listed.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

I voted for Leonard because of his boxing acumen, physical attributes and quality of competition...despite being inactive for 2 years. I have to say that RJJ would get my p4p vote if he had simply retired after beating Ruiz and Tarver in 2003.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
What in the world did Muhammed Ali (for example) do that say Bob Fitzsimmons didnt do. Or what did Roberto Duran do that Sam Langford couldnt and didnt do? Why is Sugar Ray Leonard a better fighter than say Tommy Ryan. Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Benny Leonard, Carlos Monzon, the list is endless of fighters who could be considered. Many of whom really have a much stronger case than several on the list. Saying that you really shouln't have anyone else is quite frankly, wrong.

Especially when the greatest ever (bob fitzsimmons) isnt even listed.
Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis best p4p? Ok, miss me with that. I am talking about #1 here. Now, Bob Fitzsimmons or Tommy Ryan, I won't argue with that. They were both great fighters who I admire very much. Benny Leonard and Carlos Monzon? I can see them on a top ten p4p list, but not at the top. That is just my opinion.

You mentioned Sam Langford? Isn't he one of the fighters that I listed? It seems to me your are trying to be an over zealous "boxing historian" here. If you read my second post, I clearly stated that I tried to list other. If I didn't consider that someone else's name could be listed on another fan's list, then I would have said to list other. Right? But, in my opinion, #1 should be between the guys that I listed. I'm sorry, is that too much for you to handle that someone might disagree with you?

Listen, I am not trying to be a smart*ss here. It just seemed to me like you were. You rate Ruby as #1 and that's ok with me. It isn't out of the question. The only knock on Fitzsimmons is that he didn't have the best chin. Not nessessarily a bad chin, just not the best. Now, that is hardly a knock at all. The first three division champ, back when there were only eight. Went from middleweight champ to heavyweight champ and then down to light heavyweight champ. Hey, I'm with you on Fitzsimmons, just not at #1.

P.S.: I also typed Langford on my poll and just noticed that he isn't on there. If you hadn't mentioned Langford, I might not have noticed that along with "other" he also didn't go through.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

Attention people!

I had sam langford on my list, but i only listed 8 possible poll picks, instead of 10. That is why other is not listed. I know langford has to be in this conversation. Don't hang me.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

Wlad, of course!










SRR, actually. I know it's the safe pick but it's also the correct pick.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

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Wlad, of course!










SRR, actually. I know it's the safe pick but it's also the correct pick.
I agree. I know a lot of people just go with the consensus, but I have studied this long and hard. The only person that I would even consider putting above him is Harry Greb. Having said that, I still stick with Sugar Ray. The man had the best set of skills of any fighter in history. Not to mention the fact that he was as graceful as any man to ever step into the ring.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

By and large; fighters that get pound for pound acclaim are fighters that excel at one weight, and go on to success at higher weights. There are exceptions to this. Ali, Pep, and Benny Leonard established themselves in their own respective title winning weight class.

I sometimes lose sight of how important dominance of one class is in today's 17 divisioned, with 3-4 world titles each division, mess that no one cares to clean up. Today, people can find a particular style they fare well against and move from weight class to weight class looking good against that particular type.

Ray Robinson can make a completely sound and solid argument for being the best in two weight classes, welter and middle. I don't know of anyone else being able to make that sort of claim, especially since 6 of the 8 in this poll competed in at least one of these weight classes.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Gaul View Post
I voted for Leonard because of his boxing acumen, physical attributes and quality of competition...despite being inactive for 2 years. I have to say that RJJ would get my p4p vote if he had simply retired after beating Ruiz and Tarver in 2003.
Would it somehow erase his accomplishments or make him a different man if he had? I still don't get this "If they had retired when..." stuff.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Who's the greatest?

The question who is the greatest,is tough to answer for two reasons, to me...The greatest, could mean, what fighter was the best ALL around fighter , and the most beautiful to watch ? I would answer Ray Robinson, who I was fortunate to see in his welterweight prime several times...By far the best fighter I ever saw live. Hands down...
However, the GREATEST Fighter question could mean something else...
It could also mean what fighter, could beat great fighters way above his weight class, that A Ray Robinson, would never attempt to do...Robinson wisely knew his physical limitations...Of course the fighter I have in mind is the Iron City Express, Harry Greb.... Greb beat Hall of famers such as Tunney, Loughran, Gibbons , Jack Dillon,Battling Levinsky, Maxsie Rosenbloom, Mickey Walker, etc,alltime greats who outweighed Harry Greb by 15 pounds or so, and yes, heavyweights such as Bill Brennan several times... As I posted before Harry Greb would certainly lick every one of Ray Robinsons opponents, but Robinson never would beat these great and heavier light heavyweights...He avoided the bigger men such as Moore, Charles, Lloyd Marshall, Harold Johnson...Greb feared no one...This is why I pick Harry Greb, along with Ruby Bob Fitzimmons, and Sam Langford, as the greatest P4P fighters of alltime...They were great " handy cap horses".
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