Could Roland Lastarza have succeeded in other eras? - Page 3

mr. magoo · 10-08-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotti_killer

He fought in an era of some of the worst competion ever in the heavyweight ranks and came up short, where as if haye beats mormeck he will be the cruiserweight champion of the world in an era when the cruiserweight division is pretty strong.

You can't deny that Lastarza might have been competitive at the cruiserweight ranks. Even Evander Holyfield in the peak of his cruiserweight reign might have had some degree of difficulty with a defensive master like Roland. I'm not saying it would happen, but we can't dismiss the possibility. This was a man who's chin and stamina was proven against top rated heavyweights. Lastarza was for the most part a great fighter until his rematch with Marciano. I can't imagine what having extensive surgery on both arms has to do to a fighter, particularly one who relies so heavily on his defense. Therefore, we can't use his later defeats as an accurate measure to label him as being one kind of a fighter or another. As for his lack of power, that might have been different had he been fighting at a lighter weight class.

Luigi1985 · 10-08-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeezzard

So Haye would have beaten Joe Walcott,Ezzard Charles,Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano?

Definitely, and all in the first 3 rounds, only Marciano would get beaten a bit later because of cuts. Don´t you agree? It seems to be that you´re a biased hater...

rydersonthestorm · 10-08-2007, 05:35 PM

I didn't say that did i, again making up bullshit, he would have a chance against walcott and charles, i don't think he would beat marciano and would'nt stand a chance against loius.

Luigi1985 · 10-08-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

You can't deny that Lastarza might have been competitive at the cruiserweight ranks. Even Evander Holyfield in the peak of his cruiserweight reign might have had some degree of difficulty with a defensive master like Roland. I'm not saying it would happen, but we can't dismiss the possibility. This was a man who's chin and stamina was proven against top rated heavyweights. Lastarza was for the most part a great fighter until his rematch with Marciano. I can't imagine what having extensive surgery on both arms has to do to a fighter, particularly one who relies so heavily on his defense. Therefore, we can't use his later defeats as an accurate measure to label him as being one kind of a fighter or another. As for his lack of power, that might have been different had he been fighting at a lighter weight class.

You´re right, and let´s not forget, Haye isn´t a ATG-CW or so, he´s only a young and talented fighter, who struggled with limited opposition like the 5´8 and 38 years old Fragomeni yet, so we must wait until we can match him with some great/ good HW´s of history...

rydersonthestorm · 10-08-2007, 05:39 PM

To magoo he might well have done well but haye is a legit heavyweight who weighs 230 and boils down to 200lbs, i think you have to be able to hurt him to stop him coming forward and i don't see roland doing this. Also i know haye is somewhat untested but it's funny how alot of these people who blatently nut hug the older fighter's make up any excuses they can for there loses and then will not accpet that a guy like haye just didn't train and went out partying and that the only reason he lost to thompson.
Also if haye does become the cruiserweight champ he will be the top fighter in a division that is much stronger than the current heavyweight ranks and might be the strongest the cruiserweight divison has ever been.

Joe E · 10-08-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotti_killer

I didn't say that did i, again making up bullshit, he would have a chance against walcott and charles, i don't think he would beat marciano and would'nt stand a chance against loius.

Jersey Joe would have made Haye look like a rank amateur and Ezzard Charles would have won an U.D.over him in relative easy fashion.

rydersonthestorm · 10-08-2007, 05:41 PM

Coming from a guy who names himself joeezzard, i guess your not bias either lol

Luigi1985 · 10-08-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotti_killer

To magoo he might well have done well but haye is a legit heavyweight who weighs 230 and boils down to 200lbs, i think you have to be able to hurt him to stop him coming forward and i don't see roland doing this. Also i know haye is somewhat untested but it's funny how alot of these people who blatently nut hug the older fighter's make up any excuses they can for there loses and then will not accpet that a guy like haye just didn't train and went out partying and that the only reason he lost to thompson.
Also if haye does become the cruiserweight champ he will be the top fighter in a division that is much stronger than the current heavyweight ranks and might be the strongest the cruiserweight divison has ever been.

When Haye is so great compared to a fighter like LaStarza, how can you explain me, that he struggled so much with the likes of a Fragomeni? Or that he was hurt against a former SMW? Or TKO´d by an old and shot Thompson? Sorry, that´s not hating to Haye, or defending the old-timers, but it seems to be that you rate a matchup because of 3 things: Size, weight, and the time they fought/fight...

Dempsey1238 · 10-08-2007, 05:48 PM

I like Charles by knockout.

rydersonthestorm · 10-08-2007, 05:49 PM

Not really i just rate haye, if you don't train and live the party lifestyle your not going to do well, do you not think haye has looked alot more impressive since the fragomeni fight (due to the fact he actually trains and wants to be a top boxer)and don't think that roland is as great as you think, who did he beat for you to think he was so great, also beating fighters that win as many as they lose and only have about 20 fights doesn't make you an all time great.

Joe E · 10-08-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotti_killer

Coming from a guy who names himself joeezzard, i guess your not bias either lol

What if I called myself Louis or Marciano or Lastarza?The out come would still be the same.Lastarza U.D. Haye.

Luigi1985 · 10-08-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotti_killer

Not really i just rate haye, if you don't train and live the party lifestyle your not going to do well, do you not think haye has looked alot more impressive since the fragomeni fight (due to the fact he actually trains and wants to be a top boxer)and don't think that roland is as great as you think, who did he beat for you to think he was so great, also beating fighters that win as many as they lose and only have about 20 fights doesn't make you an all time great.

How sweet you are when you´re searching for new lame excusses! Agreed, Haye is/was the only fighter ever who was a party-animal! Otherwise he would be the Undisputed Cruiserweight Champion of the World, and the p4p-nr 2 behind PBF!

rydersonthestorm · 10-08-2007, 05:59 PM

Your a joke, you can say roland was done for becuase of his beating from marcinao and his arms etc, other says oh what if dempsey/liston hadn't off took a dive etcetc, but when it comes to a modern fighter they are not allowed to make mistakes. Also haye isn't the only fighter to be a party animal but alot of those other fighter's actually trained, he was by his own admission to arrogant before and didn't tain enough, now he does and he koed the non weak chinned heayweight bonin easily and when he beats mormeck he will have acheived alot more than roland ever did.

Luigi1985 · 10-08-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotti_killer

Your a joke, you can say roland was done for becuase of his beating from marcinao and his arms etc, other says oh what if dempsey/liston hadn't off took a dive etcetc, but when it comes to a modern fighter they are not allowed to make mistakes. Also haye isn't the only fighter to be a party animal but alot of those other fighter's actually trained, he was by his own admission to arrogant before and didn't tain enough, now he does and he koed the non weak chinned heayweight bonin easily and when he beats mormeck he will have acheived alot more than roland ever did.

When did I come with the excusses you wrote now? Wake up, you dream again. Secondly, he KO´d Bonin, the iron-chinned warrior or what? Oh, sorry, I forgot, he survived nine rounds against the legend "A-Farce" Harrison for example, Bonin is a perfect example of a fighter with a padded record, before he faced Haye, he stepped in the ring with a bodybuilder, who had no fights at boxing and made his first fight, and with zero skills, and he was floored, that should tell you enough...

rydersonthestorm · 10-08-2007, 06:08 PM

He may not be a great heavyweight but he isn't weak chinned and isn't that bad either, the way haye took him out was impressive even if you don't like that fact. Also if haye beats mormeck as stated before he will have acheived alot more than roland in a dvision that is stronger than the one roland fought in, the cruiserweight top ten is probably the best it's ever been.

10-08-2007, 05:35 PM	#33
rydersonthestorm Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,013 vCash: 1000	Re: Could Roland Lastarza have succeeded in other eras? I didn't say that did i, again making up bullshit, he would have a chance against walcott and charles, i don't think he would beat marciano and would'nt stand a chance against loius.
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10-08-2007, 05:39 PM	#35
rydersonthestorm Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,013 vCash: 1000	Re: Could Roland Lastarza have succeeded in other eras? To magoo he might well have done well but haye is a legit heavyweight who weighs 230 and boils down to 200lbs, i think you have to be able to hurt him to stop him coming forward and i don't see roland doing this. Also i know haye is somewhat untested but it's funny how alot of these people who blatently nut hug the older fighter's make up any excuses they can for there loses and then will not accpet that a guy like haye just didn't train and went out partying and that the only reason he lost to thompson. Also if haye does become the cruiserweight champ he will be the top fighter in a division that is much stronger than the current heavyweight ranks and might be the strongest the cruiserweight divison has ever been.
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10-08-2007, 05:41 PM	#37
rydersonthestorm Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,013 vCash: 1000	Re: Could Roland Lastarza have succeeded in other eras? Coming from a guy who names himself joeezzard, i guess your not bias either lol
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10-08-2007, 05:48 PM	#39
Dempsey1238 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,352 vCash: 1000	Re: Could Roland Lastarza have succeeded in other eras? I like Charles by knockout.
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10-08-2007, 05:49 PM	#40
rydersonthestorm Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,013 vCash: 1000	Re: Could Roland Lastarza have succeeded in other eras? Not really i just rate haye, if you don't train and live the party lifestyle your not going to do well, do you not think haye has looked alot more impressive since the fragomeni fight (due to the fact he actually trains and wants to be a top boxer)and don't think that roland is as great as you think, who did he beat for you to think he was so great, also beating fighters that win as many as they lose and only have about 20 fights doesn't make you an all time great.
Top

10-08-2007, 05:59 PM	#43
rydersonthestorm Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,013 vCash: 1000	Re: Could Roland Lastarza have succeeded in other eras? Your a joke, you can say roland was done for becuase of his beating from marcinao and his arms etc, other says oh what if dempsey/liston hadn't off took a dive etcetc, but when it comes to a modern fighter they are not allowed to make mistakes. Also haye isn't the only fighter to be a party animal but alot of those other fighter's actually trained, he was by his own admission to arrogant before and didn't tain enough, now he does and he koed the non weak chinned heayweight bonin easily and when he beats mormeck he will have acheived alot more than roland ever did.
Top

10-08-2007, 06:08 PM	#45
rydersonthestorm Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,013 vCash: 1000	Re: Could Roland Lastarza have succeeded in other eras? He may not be a great heavyweight but he isn't weak chinned and isn't that bad either, the way haye took him out was impressive even if you don't like that fact. Also if haye beats mormeck as stated before he will have acheived alot more than roland in a dvision that is stronger than the one roland fought in, the cruiserweight top ten is probably the best it's ever been.
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