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Old 03-29-2010, 11:57 AM   #1
burt bienstock
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Default A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

As per suggestion by mcvey,I am putting this boxing quandry on a thread...Maybe someone on ESB can help...In 1950 to 1952 I saw Ray Robinson fight Bobby Dykes in the old Coney Island Veledrome,in NY...It was in the summer at this old open air arena...I remember Robinson arriving late and we saw Robinson and his entourage depart from his Fuscia colored Cadillac,for his dressing room...Robinson won the dec. from Bobby Dykes...For years I have checked boxrec,and other sources and it was never in their records...In fact boxrec has Bobby Dykes listed as a Southpaw,which I remember that Dykes fought Orthodox...Well,last week I saw a film on youtube,from Chicago of Robinson/Dykes and sure enough I was correct...Dykes was orthodox...Boxrec was incorrect...Boxrec also has Robinson fighting a Billy Brown,Sept.4,1950, New York...I checked on boxrec and there is no bio of a Billy Brown,middleweight of that time...All I know is that I was at the Bobby Dykes/Ray Robinson fight ,Coney Island Velodrome,in the 1950-1952 era, record books be damned...Any suggestions fans.?Any boxing sleuths on ESB?
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Because I have shit all to do in the next couple hours, I looked on the NYT archives. The only mention of the two fighting which I could find was in Miami in 1951... which further mystifies things.

Upon further review that fight was cancelled.

Here's a cool little obit... [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

A mystery indeed, I can't find anything of a bout between SRR and Bobby Dykes at the Coney Island Velodrome.

The last fight in Brooklyn in 1950 was SRR vs Billy Brown at Keyspan Park.

''The bout is the first major boxing match held in Brooklyn since 1950, when Sugar Ray Robinson won a 10-round decision over Billy Brown. ''

Last edited by Meast; 03-29-2010 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Meast,The plot thickens....No Keyspan Park I believe is the home of the NY Mets minor league team...The Coney Island Veledrome was originally built in the 1890s,as James J Jeffries,fought Bob Fitzimmons, and Tom Sharkey,there in 1899...Besides, where Coney Island Velodrome Once stood, there is now some stores,and Keyspan Park is about one half mile away, near the ocean...My intuition tells me that the fight I saw at Coney Island Veledrome,was the second Ray Robinson/Bobby Dykes fight,later than 1950... And strangely enough , it has not been recorded in most record books...But I KNOW I did see them fight at C.I.V...Where is Sherlock Holmes when we need him ?
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

What mystery?

We have two invalid internet sources, and a man who witnessed the fight before his own eyes here.

Hello? It's not that difficult. I have no reason to believe that Burt is wrong, so lets give him the benefit of the doubt. It's not like he dreamed he saw the fight. I mean the man said he was there, he was there.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]"In 1950, in Coney Island at the Velodrome, Sugar Ray Robinson fought a non-title fight against Billy Brown in a 10-rounder. (It would not be until nearly a half a century on July 8, 2001, when professional boxing would finally return. Hector Camacho Jr. fought Jesse James Leija in a 10-round junior welterweight bout, at the Keyspan Park televised on HBO"

A mystery indeed. I'll keep digging though, its got me interested
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

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Originally Posted by reznick View Post
What mystery?

We have two invalid internet sources, and a man who witnessed the fight before his own eyes here.

Hello? It's not that difficult. I have no reason to believe that Burt is wrong, so lets give him the benefit of the doubt. It's not like he dreamed he saw the fight. I mean the man said he was there, he was there.

Yeah I've also read that the information on Wiki isn't right either.

I'll keep looking for something, but it seems so far that the fight wasn't recorded.
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

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Yeah I've also read that the information on Wiki isn't right either.

I'll keep looking for something, but it seems so far that the fight wasn't recorded.
Would it have been recorded if it was some sort of exhibition match? thats the only conclusion i can think of. All I can find so far is Ray fighting Dykes in Chicago. Theres an article on Ray robsinon in The New York Times Archive, mentioning the velodrome, but you have to pay!
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

As I posted Before Keyspan Park is not the site of the old Coney Island veledrome...Obe half mile apart from the torn down CIV...
Incidentally, I can detect no record of a BILLY BROWN who fought welter-middleweight in the early 1950s,and is listed as fighting Ray Robinson,Sept.4,1950,at CIV...Boxrec has Ray Robinson W 10 Billy Brown,NY Sept,4,1950, and then
Ray Robinson W 10 Bobby Dykes ,Chicago, Nov.8, 1950...Being that I saw that Robinson/Dykes bout outdoors in the summer, boxrec might have mixed up the dates,of the two fights, or FINALLY there was a second Robinson/Dykes bout I saw ,never recorded...I do recall the fight being not too exciting,as it was a non-title affair....But seeing the then legend Ray Robinson was always an event... The mystery goes on.....
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
As per suggestion by mcvey,I am putting this boxing quandry on a thread...Maybe someone on ESB can help...In 1950 to 1952 I saw Ray Robinson fight Bobby Dykes in the old Coney Island Veledrome,in NY...It was in the summer at this old open air arena...I remember Robinson arriving late and we saw Robinson and his entourage depart from his Fuscia colored Cadillac,for his dressing room...Robinson won the dec. from Bobby Dykes...For years I have checked boxrec,and other sources and it was never in their records...In fact boxrec has Bobby Dykes listed as a Southpaw,which I remember that Dykes fought Orthodox...Well,last week I saw a film on youtube,from Chicago of Robinson/Dykes and sure enough I was correct...Dykes was orthodox...Boxrec was incorrect...Boxrec also has Robinson fighting a Billy Brown,Sept.4,1950, New York...I checked on boxrec and there is no bio of a Billy Brown,middleweight of that time...All I know is that I was at the Bobby Dykes/Ray Robinson fight ,Coney Island Velodrome,in the 1950-1952 era, record books be damned...Any suggestions fans.?Any boxing sleuths on ESB?
The Sun Sentinel .com has Dykes fighting Robinson in 1950 and losing by split dec ,it also describes Dykes as being left handed.
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Old 03-29-2010, 04:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
As per suggestion by mcvey,I am putting this boxing quandry on a thread...Maybe someone on ESB can help...In 1950 to 1952 I saw Ray Robinson fight Bobby Dykes in the old Coney Island Veledrome,in NY...It was in the summer at this old open air arena...I remember Robinson arriving late and we saw Robinson and his entourage depart from his Fuscia colored Cadillac,for his dressing room...Robinson won the dec. from Bobby Dykes...For years I have checked boxrec,and other sources and it was never in their records...In fact boxrec has Bobby Dykes listed as a Southpaw,which I remember that Dykes fought Orthodox...Well,last week I saw a film on youtube,from Chicago of Robinson/Dykes and sure enough I was correct...Dykes was orthodox...Boxrec was incorrect...Boxrec also has Robinson fighting a Billy Brown,Sept.4,1950, New York...I checked on boxrec and there is no bio of a Billy Brown,middleweight of that time...All I know is that I was at the Bobby Dykes/Ray Robinson fight ,Coney Island Velodrome,in the 1950-1952 era, record books be damned...Any suggestions fans.?Any boxing sleuths on ESB?
Hickok Sports.com,in their biography of Robinson, have Ray taking the Pennsylvania version of the middleweight title from Robert Villemain , and winning a dec over 10rds in NY, then fighting Bobby Dykes over 10 rds in Chicago on Nov 8th 1950.
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Spooky, no mention in the ny times.
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

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Originally Posted by reznick View Post
What mystery?

We have two invalid internet sources, and a man who witnessed the fight before his own eyes here.

Hello? It's not that difficult. I have no reason to believe that Burt is wrong, so lets give him the benefit of the doubt. It's not like he dreamed he saw the fight. I mean the man said he was there, he was there.
I agree.

The fight seems to have disappeared from all records though. It maybe went totally unreported, which is strange because Robinson was middleweight champ at the time.

I dont doubt Burt for a second.

There's a chance Bobby Dykes subbed for Billy Brown and it got mistakenly reported !
Many times, the fight reports are just copied of a single wire report or a single ringside reporter. I haven't read the reports, but it's possible that it was Dykes all along.

Brown's record shows he was fighting in Florida around the time he came up to up to Coney Island to fight Robinson.
And Dykes was a Floridan who was fighting out in Florida around this time too. This doesn't prove anything at all, but it might be the start of something "Sherlock Holmes", OR just a red herring.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:51 PM   #14
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Yes, I remember Dykes being a 'switcher'. Nobody could really say what kind of fighter he was. Very mystic stuff there.
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Old 04-02-2010, 02:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Maybe Dyke is Brown and as mentioned earlier it was a mistake by sportswriters.
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