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Old 04-02-2010, 06:30 PM   #16
burt bienstock
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

GPater11093,
I think you probably solved the mystery for me...The fight that I assuredly saw between Ray Robinson against Bobby Dykes, in the old outdoor Coney Island Veledrome,was on Sept.4,1950...The boxres has it listed as Robinson fighting Billy Brown,when it was Bobby Dykes who we saw that night...The only odd thing is Boxrec has Ray Robinson fighting Bobby Dykes,Nov.8,1950, in Chicago,two months later...Could be a rematch as I recall the Sept. 4 bout as close...Incidentally Boxrec lists Bobby Dykes as a southpaw, which incorrect, as you can see now on Youtube...Bobby Dykes was a very good lanky fighter, with a top reputation,with a right hand style as I always recalled...Yes GPater, I believe we are right and Boxrec has been in the wrong all these years...Any other info ,I would appreciate from fans...B.B.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Perhaps Brown was originally scheduled and the sportswriters simply reported by the schedule without noticing Dykes had substituted for Brown...for whatever reason...and under whatever circumstances. I've even heard of some sportswriters report on fights they never even were in attendance for.
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Old 04-03-2010, 02:39 AM   #18
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Is there not a slight chance it was the Robinson-Brown fight you saw, with Brown being a last-minute replacement for Dykes, with many in attendance (including your very youthful self) not-realising this?
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

SRR's newest biography has a few paragraphs about him fighting Dykes in 1950 in his tv debut on Nov 8 in Chicago, no reference of an earlier fight
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:25 AM   #20
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Maybe so Burt

But I have done a quick bit of research and it isnt looking good. I checked Cyberboxingzone's records of both men. These are usually much more reliable than Boxrec.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

It has Dykes fighting in Florida on the 13th September then again in October, so a journy to New York could have been possible but he had about his average wait between bouts so there wasnt a suspiciously long delay between fights.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

It has the Bobby Brown fight listed.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:11 AM   #21
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Is cyberboxing really "much more reliable" than Boxrec?
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:28 AM   #22
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
Is cyberboxing really "much more reliable" than Boxrec?
Well they are usually for the older fighters, yes. Because they are more specialised and researched due to the limited number of fighters documented in CBZ.

Do you disagree?
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:33 AM   #23
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
Well they are usually for the older fighters, yes. Because they are more specialised and researched due to the limited number of fighters documented in CBZ.

Do you disagree?

I'm asking the question, do you have any examples? Also, I'm sure the thread starter may have looked a cyberzone also. I doubt there'll be much difference between both sites when it comes to opponents of someone like Sugar Ray Robinson. This is hardly Teddy Red Top Davis we're talking here.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:34 AM   #24
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
I'm asking the question, do you have any examples? Also, I'm sure the thread starter may have looked a cyberzone also. I doubt there'll be much difference between both sites when it comes to opponents of someone like Sugar Ray Robinson. This is hardly Teddy Red Top Davis we're talking here.
Fair enough. It is mainly people like Jeffries and of that era that's record is more complete on CBZ.

But like you say Robinson probably wont have no missing bouts due to his popularity.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:43 AM   #25
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I've checked my 3 SRR bios and they only show one Dykes fight in Chicago, they also show the Brown fight in New York, no mention of of it being at the CI Velodrome though
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:06 AM   #26
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Guys, I think we are coming to a dead end here...I know I saw the BOBBY DYKES/ROBINSON fight in the Coney Island Veledrome, probably AFTER 1950...I rememger as I have posted before vivid events that day...We sat in the last rowof the open air arena ..Robinson was very late, and the crowd was fidgety...Finally I saw Robinson's pink/fuscia Cadillac arrive ,and he and his handlers,entered the Arena ..Later on the fight started and as sure as I am typing this it was BOBBY DYKES as Robbies opponent...I recall Dykes as a tall and skillful orthodox fighter ,who had a solid reputation then....NOT BILLY BROWN. I faintly have the impression that Robinson / Dykes fought a bout before that fight we saw in the CIV...One misreport that day perpetuated, the mistake we now see in boxrec and bios of Robinson..After all, the book authors ofRay's bios, were not there as I was and get there dates from boxrec..As Bobby Dykes,died years ago,like Judge Crater , the mystery lingers on..Thanks guys...Back to my Tylenol...B.B.
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:56 AM   #27
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Burt, because I love a challenge, I tore into this and the results are not that good for how you remembered it, amigo. Perhaps someone smarter than I (which shouldn't be a stretch) can delve deeper. Anyway, here is what I found. First of all, there is indeed a Billy Brown. He fought out of Hartford and his record was 53-29-6 going into the supposed Robinson fight. Youtube has a couple of posts on Robinson-Dykes. There is one that is part one and a part two. Part one is pretty much all preliminary buildup, intros and such. Part two is the first 4 rounds. At about the :45 second mark of part one, listen to the commentator mentioning how Robinson has trouble with boxers, "Including his last fight at the Velodrome with Billy Brown". I checked several pieces on the Sept. 4th fight in Coney Island and both the AP and the UP have clear articles on Robinson fighting Billy Brown of Hartford. I checked the day of the match and it was Billy Brown scheduled. It wasn't a wire result which can be flawed (I'll get to that in a moment) but very descriptive (a 5th round rocking and a cut eye) including the officials and their scorecards (10-0, 10-0, 9-1 all for Robinson). This much detail suggests more in depth coverage. Just to go deeper, I checked Brown's next fight against Jimmy Curl to see if the Robinson fight was mentioned and sure enough it stated, "Either Brown, who recently went 10 with champion Ray Robinson, has an iron jaw, or Curl's left has lost some of its power in a long layoff." However, to throw back how things can get flawed, all the wire services reported that fight as a Jimmy Curl win (the one line fight results) but the article I found from the Miami Herald describes a split decision win for Brown including the officials scorecards. So, things can go awry. Sorry I couldn't have found anything to substantiate your memory of the event, Burt. I say, just embrace the memory, because the way you described it it is a cool one.

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Old 04-03-2010, 11:22 AM   #28
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Scartissue, I thank you for your interest in my quandry...I KNOW what I witnessed that day at the CIV...Too bad Bobby Dykes died in 2006, because he or his family could have solved this puzzle...I have been a devotee of boxing since the early 1940s, and I have never heard or SEEN a Billy Brown fight...Incidentally, look as Sweetfights, and you will see Ray Robinson/Bobby Dykes in Chicago,Nov. 8,1950...Watch {as I have always Known },Dykes was a lean ORTHODOX fighter, NOt a SOUTHPAW as boxrec had it....How did I know if I had'nt seen Bobby Dykes /Robinson in person at CIV ?Box rec was wrong then ,and I believe today that Robinson and Dykes Had to fight a second bout probably some time after...Also if memory serves me there were no knockdowns, in the fight I saw, and it was a tame affair...I do recall waiting along with the crowd for Robinson, who was late, in the daylight...So it had to be in the summer or early Autumn...But see it I did...Thanks,Scartissue...B.B.
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:10 PM   #29
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Burt, I realise what you are saying now. You are well aware of the Dykes/Brown fights (as detailed in Ray's official record with the respective dates) and want to know about a further fight with Dykes at Coney Island that has disappeared from the record. Seems like the plot thickens.
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:32 PM   #30
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Default Re: A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Burt--is it possible Dykes fought under Brown's name? They were both active in Florida. The man who fought Robinson made a quick trip from Florida. The Robinson fight was probably a big money shot. If Brown were signed, but couldn't make the fight due to illness or having been arrested or some such, I could see a greedy manager taking Dykes up to New York instead and palming him off as Brown. Such things happened in the old days.

You say you were a long way from the ring. You remember Dykes. Do you remember if he was announced from the ring as Dykes or as Brown?
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