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Old 04-02-2010, 10:13 AM   #1
Mandanda
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Default Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

So seeing as were upon the first Heavyweight Title fight on these shores for 10 years i thought we could start with this fight.

I know we have plenty Al Bernstein's or the Teddy Atlas on this forum.

You can do it in any style you like (Bullet Points or with Normal Paragraphs). Eg.

Haye
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Ruiz
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Then give your prediction for who you think's gonna win.

Also Maybe Olusegun vs Lynes and Adamu vs Groves.

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Old 04-02-2010, 10:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

Haye wins in Round 4, right uppercut, left hook, right backhand straight down the pipe...

TIMBER...
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

God knows. Seems like Ruiz is a hard guy to get out of there. Haye needs to be careful he doesn't gas himself out trying for the knockout. Haye's only done 12 rounds at heavyweight once and that wasn't exactly a fast paced fight. Come to think of it, Haye has only gone 12 rounds twice ever! This bothers me when he is fighting a guy who has only been stopped once in his career and has gone the full 12 many times. Having said that, I'm going with Haye on points.

Last edited by KingCobra; 04-02-2010 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:14 AM   #4
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

I just think that Haye hits so hard if he hits Ruiz on the button he will go...
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

I can see the ref stopping the fight in rd 6 because of a flurry of Haye punches with no reply from Ruiz. Can't see Ruiz being knocked out though, tough fella.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

Haye
- Movement and his jab/left hook. He'll need this to keep Ruiz off-balance and in position.
- Haye's overhand right. Ruiz is vulnerable to overhand rights - Toney landed them all night as a counter punch, sometimes even as a lead.
- Body work, but this will be difficult. Ruiz becomes negative if he's getting tagged, but Haye can knock the steam out of Ruiz. He'll need to do this in case the fight goes late.
- left uppercut as Ruiz falls in. Ruiz is less prone to this now, but he still throws a few then leans on. Haye needs to use the left uppercut to move Ruiz off, then follow with the straight right if he wants a stoppage.

Ruiz
- His jab without doubt. Barrett gave Haye pause with his jab and, when Maccarinelli threw his, it forced Haye to step off and reset.
- body work - the same for Ruiz as for Haye, but Ruiz needs to plan for a late rounds win.
- Head movement. Haye's a headhunter, even though i think he'll have the same tactics as against Mormeck. If Ruiz can keep his head off-centre, Haye's going to go to the body more, which will allow for sneaky counters.
- don't fall in. Other guys seem incapable of doing this to Ruiz, but Haye has shown he will use a fighter's tendencies against them. He'll be waiting for Ruiz to lean in and he'll use it. Ruiz has to make Haye reach with his punches.
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by threethirteen View Post
Haye
- Movement and his jab/left hook. He'll need this to keep Ruiz off-balance and in position.
- Haye's overhand right. Ruiz is vulnerable to overhand rights - Toney landed them all night as a counter punch, sometimes even as a lead.
- Body work, but this will be difficult. Ruiz becomes negative if he's getting tagged, but Haye can knock the steam out of Ruiz. He'll need to do this in case the fight goes late.
- left uppercut as Ruiz falls in. Ruiz is less prone to this now, but he still throws a few then leans on. Haye needs to use the left uppercut to move Ruiz off, then follow with the straight right if he wants a stoppage.

Ruiz
- His jab without doubt. Barrett gave Haye pause with his jab and, when Maccarinelli threw his, it forced Haye to step off and reset.
- body work - the same for Ruiz as for Haye, but Ruiz needs to plan for a late rounds win.
- Head movement. Haye's a headhunter, even though i think he'll have the same tactics as against Mormeck. If Ruiz can keep his head off-centre, Haye's going to go to the body more, which will allow for sneaky counters.
- don't fall in. Other guys seem incapable of doing this to Ruiz, but Haye has shown he will use a fighter's tendencies against them. He'll be waiting for Ruiz to lean in and he'll use it. Ruiz has to make Haye reach with his punches.
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

I don't think there is any great science to this one. They've both got to use what they're best at.

Haye:

- Use the legs. Find the angles, make Ruiz commit.
- Use the jab.
- Find the right hand, this is his best punch to hurt Ruiz.
- Fire in the occasional body shot or left-hook to keep Ruiz guessing.

Ruiz:

- Cut the ring off as economically as possible, try moving the head.
- Keep a really tight high guard as Mormeck and Fragomeni did and DO NOT throw from far out.
- I would say don't bother with the jab, its not really effective and Haye will time you over the top.
- Make him pay in close. Do anything to sap his energy, lean on him, hit him, hold, fire in a sneaky low blow. Anything to make life difficult.
- Stay in the fight as long as possible and up things later on.
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

ruiz has pretty good odds everywhere im very tempted to put a few quid on him in the later rounds
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TFFP View Post
I don't think there is any great science to this one. They've both got to use what they're best at.

Haye:

- Use the legs. Find the angles, make Ruiz commit.
- Use the jab.
- Find the right hand, this is his best punch to hurt Ruiz.
- Fire in the occasional body shot or left-hook to keep Ruiz guessing.

Ruiz:

- Cut the ring off as economically as possible, try moving the head.
- Keep a really tight high guard as Mormeck and Fragomeni did and DO NOT throw from far out.
- I would say don't bother with the jab, its not really effective and Haye will time you over the top.
- Make him pay in close. Do anything to sap his energy, lean on him, hit him, hold, fire in a sneaky low blow. Anything to make life difficult.
- Stay in the fight as long as possible and up things later on.
This is the analysis I like best so far, although threethirteen did a very sophisticated assessment as well.

Threethirteen: I disagree with you regarding Haye being able to do what Toney did. Although Toney is not as fast as or powerful as Haye, he is a far superior boxer. Toney's timing and counterpunching ability, at least when he beat Ruiz, were the very best of any fighter in boxing at 160 lbs. and higher. Toney could stand in front of Ruiz and counter successfully; I'm not sure Haye has the skill or timing to do the same. Haye has the speed, yes, but Ruiz will watching out for that by keeping his guard high to smother punches.

It's been reported that Haye only connected with seven punches per round against Valuev, at best. I believe this tells us something about how Haye's stamina will hold out if he is forced to throw lots of leather to fend Ruiz off.

Haye will try to hit and run, to play it safe and easy, but Ruiz will wear him down. Ruiz is the physically stronger guy, and he's quite durable, too. I agree with TFFP: the Mormeck and Fraggomeni fights tell us something about how Ruiz will make Haye work and move. The difference is that over the long term, Ruiz will find increasing opportunities to rough it up on the inside. This kind of fight will sap Haye's strength eventually.

I don't think Haye can afford to gun for a spectacular kayo by overwhelming Ruiz will a blinding display of hand speed and power. Ruiz will survive such blitzes, and Haye will not be able to afford the return punishment that Ruiz dishes out. Thus, Haye will probably stick to jabbing and running, with Ruiz always plodding forward like a slow steamroller.

As I see it, Haye will win the first six or seven rounds with his jab. He'll stay at a distance, always retreating or circling away from Ruiz. Haye may even dump Ruiz once with a snappy right hand. But Haye will be reluctant to exchange with Ruiz whenever Ruiz closes the distance, which inevitably will happen sometimes. At these moments, Ruiz will clinch, wrestle, bodypunch, or rough Haye up, if only momentarily. Haye may get desperate at these moments and swing wildly, thus expending energy.

By the seventh or eighth, Haye will be less fast on his feet, and his effectiveness with the jab will be less consistent. More and more Ruiz get close enough to push or bull Haye. We will notice that Haye's punches start to lose their snap. For the first time, Haye will take solid rights, and he will weaken.

By the ninth or tenth, Haye will be tired and the bout will look ugly, with lots of clinching. Ruiz will take over and club Haye with hard rights and left hooks.

The bout will end in the tenth or eleventh round, with an exhausted Haye having been floored once or twice. The referee probably intervenes to save Haye from further punishment.

In the end, Haye's lack of durability and genuine heavyweight upper body strength will render him beatable by the bull-like, physically strong Ruiz.
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
This is the analysis I like best so far, although threethirteen did a very sophisticated assessment as well.

Threethirteen: I disagree with you regarding Haye being able to do what Toney did. Although Toney is not as fast as or powerful as Haye, he is a far superior boxer. Toney's timing and counterpunching ability, at least when he beat Ruiz, were the very best of any fighter in boxing at 160 lbs. and higher. Toney could stand in front of Ruiz and counter successfully; I'm not sure Haye has the skill or timing to do the same. Haye has the speed, yes, but Ruiz will watching out for that by keeping his guard high to smother punches.

It's been reported that Haye only connected with seven punches per round against Valuev, at best. I believe this tells us something about how Haye's stamina will hold out if he is forced to throw lots of leather to fend Ruiz off.

Haye will try to hit and run, to play it safe and easy, but Ruiz will wear him down. Ruiz is the physically stronger guy, and he's quite durable, too. I agree with TFFP: the Mormeck and Fraggomeni fights tell us something about how Ruiz will make Haye work and move. The difference is that over the long term, Ruiz will find increasing opportunities to rough it up on the inside. This kind of fight will sap Haye's strength eventually.

I don't think Haye can afford to gun for a spectacular kayo by overwhelming Ruiz will a blinding display of hand speed and power. Ruiz will survive such blitzes, and Haye will not be able to afford the return punishment that Ruiz dishes out. Thus, Haye will probably stick to jabbing and running, with Ruiz always plodding forward like a slow steamroller.

As I see it, Haye will win the first six or seven rounds with his jab. He'll stay at a distance, always retreating or circling away from Ruiz. Haye may even dump Ruiz once with a snappy right hand. But Haye will be reluctant to exchange with Ruiz whenever Ruiz closes the distance, which inevitably will happen sometimes. At these moments, Ruiz will clinch, wrestle, bodypunch, or rough Haye up, if only momentarily. Haye may get desperate at these moments and swing wildly, thus expending energy.

By the seventh or eighth, Haye will be less fast on his feet, and his effectiveness with the jab will be less consistent. More and more Ruiz get close enough to push or bull Haye. We will notice that Haye's punches start to lose their snap. For the first time, Haye will take solid rights, and he will weaken.

By the ninth or tenth, Haye will be tired and the bout will look ugly, with lots of clinching. Ruiz will take over and club Haye with hard rights and left hooks.

The bout will end in the tenth or eleventh round, with an exhausted Haye having been floored once or twice. The referee probably intervenes to save Haye from further punishment.

In the end, Haye's lack of durability and genuine heavyweight upper body strength will render him beatable by the bull-like, physically strong Ruiz.
Please promise you will be around on here after the fight
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

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Please promise you will be around on here after the fight
I'll be here. How do you see it turning out?
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

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Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
I'll be here. How do you see it turning out?


I just see Haye being too fast and explosive for Ruiz. He will start off slowly not wasting too much energy (in case he can't get him out of there), testing a few 1-2's on Ruiz. Then in about the 4th-5th he will start to open up a bit more and try and take him out, if he can't then he will revert back to how he was fighting earlier and win a lopsided decision. I just think Ruiz is too past it at this stage and Haye will be able to keep him off for the duration. Even though he has suspect stamina, I don't see Ruiz capitalising on it.

My official prediction is Haye by TKO5, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went the distance. However, I think Haye will want to make a statement and get him out of there
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Old 04-03-2010, 02:27 AM   #14
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

Well written analysis Kenmore, for sure its a scenario that I can envisage...but I just fail to see this happening....thinking about this more and seeing Ruiz throughout the week I think he is done to be honest, all this about the all 'new rejuvenated Ruiz' is a crock of shit.

I think Haye will go out at an explosive pace from the start...he really hasnt had the opportunity to load up on a durable heavyweight so I reckon he will be wanting to find out just what sort of damage his power can do up at HW. I think Ruiz will survive this early onslaught and Haye will revert to boxing off the back foot and staying away from Ruiz clinches....Ruiz was very slow in his prime, even more slow now...so barring an incredibly lucky punch...this is a comfortable Haye victory.

I'm sticking with my Haye UD prediction.....Ruiz is a tough tough ****er to get out of there, I think Haye will unload early on but the see that Ruiz can take his shots and he will play it safe from then on
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: Keys to Victory Haye vs Ruiz (Big Fights Part 1)

Kenmore,

Toney is undoubtedly the superior counter-puncher, but that wasn't just timing - Ruiz is prone to taking right hands over the top. That's been a feature of every fight he's been in.

Haye isn't an in-the-pocket fighter and doesn't have the in-fighting ability and toughness that Toney does, so he doesn't fight that way. He uses distance and angles to unload hard shots, sometimes in combination.

I think Ruiz will fall short with a jab or a hook and Haye will punish him with the right. Haye will use it as a lead occasionally too. But I still think it'll likely be a UD win for Haye.
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