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Old 04-05-2010, 01:09 PM   #31
KCD
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Default Re: Good performance by Haye last night, but....

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Originally Posted by Will View Post
Wlad is only effective (and he is very effective) at range. Once you get the fight mid-range or produce an infight he goes to being extremely ineffective. Hay needs to do plenty of work getting inside that Jab and then he'll be able to scare the shit outta Wlad.

You can guarentee Wlad won't have liked what he saw against Ruiz. Apart from anything Haye did take a few decent shots from Ruiz and didn't even wobble.



But on the same note, Wlads jab is probably more powerful than a Ruiz right hand.

And also if i was Wlad i would have loved alot of what i saw last night.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: Good performance by Haye last night, but....

This one is pretty easy to dissect even though there's a million ancillary things. Haye beating two plodders in Ruiz and Valuev does nothing to prepare him for these megatrons.

I really can't see how Dave even gets past that letter bomb of a jab, he has a punchers chance with Wlad who is more manufactured then Vitali, can get flustered, leans back from punches as supposed to Vitali who has an ATG chin, is more loosy goosey and a more natural fighter who's being on the 'brink' has been greatly exaggerated imo, these PHD's are smart fellas who know their bodies and i think big brother knows his body can stay together. For me he's looked stella since his comeback.

Another thing, can people stop referencing Wlad's KO losses? Neither one of these brothers are no where near what they were in the past. To actually look at the Wlad now and draw comparisons to his fight with Cory Sanders or Vitali and draw comparisons to his fight with Byrd is simply not even in the same universe anymore. These two brothers have been transfixed into robots that don't get placed into crossfire anymore. They just beat you up with some 1-1-1-1-1's with the occasional 2 cross, backslide, reset and 1-1-1-1 you; death by 1,000 1's!

I think Haye has a very small chance, I don't like this Roy Jones esque stance with the left hand below is waist without the freak athleticism, the jumping into punches with poor balance which makes him easy to counter and open for uppercuts particularly from Vitali, squaring up (although he's been doing it less and less tbf) which means he's very easy to control with that jab.

Vitali knocks him out and Wlad wins a decision surviving a few oohs and aahs.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: Good performance by Haye last night, but....

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Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
This one is pretty easy to dissect even though there's a million ancillary things. Haye beating two plodders in Ruiz and Valuev does nothing to prepare him for these megatrons.

I really can't see how Dave even gets past that letter bomb of a jab, he has a punchers chance with Wlad who is more manufactured then Vitali, can get flustered, leans back from punches as supposed to Vitali who has an ATG chin, is more loosy goosey and a more natural fighter who's being on the 'brink' has been greatly exaggerated imo, these PHD's are smart fellas who know their bodies and i think big brother knows his body can stay together. For me he's looked stella since his comeback.

Another thing, can people stop referencing Wlad's KO losses? Neither one of these brothers are no where near what they were in the past. To actually look at the Wlad now and draw comparisons to his fight with Cory Sanders or Vitali and draw comparisons to his fight with Byrd is simply not even in the same universe anymore. These two brothers have been transfixed into robots that don't get placed into crossfire anymore. They just beat you up with some 1-1-1-1-1's with the occasional 2 cross, backslide, reset and 1-1-1-1 you; death by 1,000 1's!

I think Haye has a very small chance, I don't like this Roy Jones esque stance with the left hand below is waist without the freak athleticism, the jumping into punches with poor balance which makes him easy to counter and open for uppercuts particularly from Vitali, squaring up (although he's been doing it less and less tbf) which means he's very easy to control with that jab.

Vitali knocks him out and Wlad wins a decision surviving a few oohs and aahs.
What about the Sam Peter vs Wlad fight? He was all over the place in that.
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Old 04-07-2010, 03:02 AM   #34
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Default Re: Good performance by Haye last night, but....

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And this is why I can't stand the brothers' fans. Get a grip.


I gave an objective opinion on how I see the fight going. I'm actually a big fan of Lewis and enjoy his fights. All I said is wlad utilizes the left in more ways than Lennox. Lewis used it mainly as a rangefinder (e.g. vs. Bruno, Grant) for other shots but Wlad clearly realies on it more to execute his gameplan in order to control his opponent. For example, please see round 2 vs. Chagaev when he used a 1/2 hook to move a charging Chagaev in order to land a powerful 1-2 combo which dropped him. How is that incorrect?

BTW, I rate Lennox ahead of both Klitschkos so Im no blind nuthugger. I was just comparing one aspect of their games.

And anyone with Haye's power and speed cannot be discounted. He's certainly a dangerous opponent and it's certainly the most meaningful fight to be made at hw aside from klit v klit.

Last edited by KobeIsGod; 04-07-2010 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:55 AM   #35
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Default Re: Good performance by Haye last night, but....

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I think this fight comes to controlling distance and tempo. You can't let Wlad control the pace of the fight and get comfortable. Wlad will come forward and pressure haye but keep distance all the while using that extended left to paw, move, measure, jab and blind haye. It's seriously a huge obstacle for anyone. Wlad will want to move Haye in a position to unleash his right hand or left hook. Seriously, he could just use that left to bust up Haye for 6 rounds or so leading to a stoppage. Lennox did a lot of this but not as much and I don't think he was as versatile with it as wlad is.

I think if you're gonna beat wladimir, you must pressure contstantly and be prepared to throw a lot of punches. It has to be physical in order to wear him down to the point where he is more stationary. You need to have a top notch defense and be willing to walk through a lot of punishment.

People point to the Sam Peter fight when wlad was dropped 3x but u have to rememeber, peter had to walk through hellacious rights and left hooks to get in position to land his shots. Moreover, I think Wlad has improved his stamina, footwork and confidence since.

Therefore, I just don't see Haye's style presenting major problems for Wladimir. Haye is elusive and defensive so wlad will probaly have trouble early measuring Haye with his left. Haye might jump in with a big lead at some points but he'd go right back on his horse. Sure Haye can land a huge counter punch and try to follow up and finish Wlad, but it's gonna be an uphill battle as long as he's in there.
I agree with the majority of this other than the "Haye is elusive" part. He's not. He fought the right fight against Valuev, but for the most part, Haye is no more elusive than any other heavy/cruiser on the scene at the moment. His major attributes are his obvious power and his hand and foot speed.

I think you're spot on though when you talk about controlling the distance. And this for me is the biggest thing Haye will have to overcome. Wlad is very good at closing and widening the gap at his own pace. While not being the most exciting to watch (although not as bad as Vit in my opinion), Wlad is technically good. Haye is brilliant to watch to technically not good. The question for me is whether Haye's natural abilities (his speed and power) can overcome the measured approach which Wlad adopts. I think Wlad would just be a little to smart for Haye in the ring and either take a points decision or stop Haye as Haye jumps in to attack.

Vit on the other hand... I think Haye can beat Vitali at the moment. Vitali obviously has the better chin. But he's getting old. He was never as quick as Wlad anyway, but his movement seems to me to be almost laboured now. He's still got the power and that long, piercing jab. But I honestly think Haye would be quick enough to get inside that jab, throw one or two shots and get back out again before being caught.

I hope I'm wrong on the Wlad thing though. I'd love Haye to clean out the division. I'm a massive fan, love everything about him and now that Ricky's (semi) retired, Haye is my favourite fighter. I just think Wlad would have his number.
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