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Old 04-04-2010, 08:10 AM   #31
Neverchair
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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No, just found your posts pointless and whiny.
Ha! Whiney?
Go back and read your main post again!
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:10 AM   #32
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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It was a great performance by Haye last night and yes there were a few flaws but when you take risks as Haye does it will always leave openings.

If youre happy to watch the Klitschkos robotically jab inferior fighters to a dull points decision then feel free to slag off David Haye's performance.

Personally, although Id put either Klitschko as a betting favourite against Haye, I could quite easily see a scenario where he outpoints or stops the older, slower Vitali or puts too much pressure on Wlad causing him to panic and get knocked out.
Hell no. Vit threw over 1000 punches in his last fight, it would take a transformation from Haye to outpoint Vit.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:10 AM   #33
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

Haye is a very good fighter and he has achieved a hell of a lot by proving himself to be a credible world champ at HW after being the Champ at CW.

I think the OP is being overcritical of Haye because s/he takes Haye's self-promotional comments at face value.

Of course Haye's not as good as he says he is, but that's not the point. He's still one of the very best HWs in the world and not many CW Champs could say the same about themselves. But the reason Haye says these things is because he is chasing the big fights and the big money that comes with those. There's nothing wrong with that. Boxing is a business. This is how it works.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:12 AM   #34
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

but did you enjoy the fight, strike?
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:13 AM   #35
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Hell no. Vit threw over 1000 punches in his last fight, it would take a transformation from Haye to outpoint Vit.
Yeah but Id be suprised if Vitali were able to land anything like that on the much quicker Haye. I reckon Haye might fight him in a similar way to Valuev just with a higher work rate.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:14 AM   #36
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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People fail to appreciate his achievements by choosing to instead dwell on negatives all of the time; it makes no sense whatsoever, IMO. How many unified and two weight world champs have we had from this country in a shade over 20 fights before? How long has it been since you saw an entertaining HW title fight like we had yesterday? Haye's 'flaws' are the reason why I love watching him fight and irrespective of how he shapes up against either K brother on paper, I say appreciate him whilst he's here. I'd sooner watch Haye than a boring textbook fighter who refuses to take risks or who aims only to pad their record.

Your missing the point, the flaws that people have pointed out arent laced with personal insults towards the guy, he one of my fav fighters aswell along with Cotto but it dosent stop from sugar coating the guy becuase we like him. I want David to win against any of the top heavies, but its important was see the errors as we are the hardcore fans who knew david haye before the casual observer did. Dave should have taken him out quicker and Vladimir has improved from his Ibragimov, Thomspon, Rahman period. His fights against Chagaev and Chambers were the best we have seen from him.

Haye has the abilty to be a great fighter, its up to us to keep his motivation and filter through the pros and the cons. The worse thing for a fighter is think he has it all made.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:16 AM   #37
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Ha! Whiney?
Go back and read your main post again!
Yes whiny. "If you would rather watch robotic Klits" and "lame" to criticise. Your first post was defensive as if I was some Klit fan slagging Haye off, when I had already stated he was my favourite fighter but I was dissapointed in a lot of things last night. I also added in the caveat that I might feel less critical once I had rewatched the fight in the cold light of day.

But you took the predictable stance of assuming I was some anti Haye poster just looking to slag him off and so started with the "go to the general forum" crap.
Anyway this is pointless, so I'll leave it here.

Anyone disagreeing with me and posting why is good, I was looking more for a discussion on the plus points and negatives of last night rather than an argument about whether he should be open to criticism or not.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:17 AM   #38
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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but did you enjoy the fight, strike?
In parts. There were a couple of frustrating rounds where he basically took the round off to conserve energy. But in the main yes.
Missed the Groves fight though which is annoying, heard he looked quality so I'll check that today.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:18 AM   #39
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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They speak about Haye as if no other boxer has faults. Wlad has faults, Vitali has faults, and, shock horror, Haye has faults. The fact with all three fighters is that their pluses outweigh their minuses.

Haye fought a disciplined fight, his punch accuracy was incredible - he didn't throw much but he made his shots count. Ruiz looked smashed up in a way I've rarely seen him before. Bar some of Ruiz's jabs, Ruiz landed nothing of note. He did some decent pressure fighting, but Haye kept on the move, took breathers where he could and won seven rounds clearly. Excluding the knock downs.

Other than the Tua loss and the Jones domination, has anyone so completely battered the guy? He did a better job than Toney or Holyfield did. Certainly better than Valuev or Chagaev did.

Let's enjoy the fact that he can box, he can bang and he'll present stylistic problems to both Wlad and Vitali.

Brilliant points but has past the level of good fighters, he is an elite level world operator now and he has the potential for all time greatness. He has to improve the flaws......Vladimir Klitshcko has improved and is far better now than he was 29 and so David needs the same ambition. Ruiz was a guy who took advantage of fighter far more talented than him, but them on will and determination. Still he was a decent fighter and good B level guy who won the WBA twice.....but when we are talking all time great fighters, or all time great contenders.....then Ruiz is just one of many decent fighters. Haye has a bunch of Guys coming through far more talented and better than Ruiz.

K. Pulev
R. Helnius
O. Solis
A. Povetkin
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:18 AM   #40
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Yes whiny. "If you would rather watch robotic Klits" and "lame" to criticise. Your first post was defensive as if I was some Klit fan slagging Haye off, when I had already stated he was my favourite fighter but I was dissapointed in a lot of things last night. I also added in the caveat that I might feel less critical once I had rewatched the fight in the cold light of day.

But you took the predictable stance of assuming I was some anti Haye poster just looking to slag him off and so started with the "go to the general forum" crap.
Anyway this is pointless, so I'll leave it here.

Anyone disagreeing with me and posting why is good, I was looking more for a discussion on the plus points and negatives of last night rather than an argument about whether he should be open to criticism or not.
Yawn.

Yes leave it there.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:22 AM   #41
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Well I do appreciate him, which is why I said he is my "favourite fighter". But that doesn't mean I cannot be critical of a performance. If I felt he fought as well as he could, I wouldn't be critical, that would simply be his limit. But I don't feel that is the case. He has got a good jab, but he chooses to barely use it and instead look for counter rights or even lead rights. When he began to pop the jab out, it was snapping Ruiz's head back and yet he still only used it sporadically.

He is an underrated body puncher, and used body work well against Mormeck. And yet again last night he only did so on perhaps 2 occasions when Ruiz was often covering his face and backed up and thus giving the perfect opportunity to go to the body and bring the guard down.

And I am very concerned about his stamina.

I would LOVE him to beat the Klit brothers. But I actually see less and less chance of it happening with each new fight he has. Especially against Vitali, landing 3 big rights per round wont be enough. It wasn't slowing Ruiz down for most of the fight, so granite jawed Vitali will have no problem and yet will be sticking that jab in Hayes face constantly. Even if he chose not to open up and KO Haye he would breeze to a points win because Haye is so inactive in so many rounds.

very true, i liked David aswell i remember when he posted on here early in his pro carrer.....is was another poster name but forgot my password. When you have the potential for greatness then you need people to remind you.......if everyone around him and all his fans glossed over some of flaws that could underpin him in the future then its likely to happen.

I wont Haye to win all the belts, becuase i know he will go for it in every figth and take on the best.......but i feel that more the spotlight is on him more the flaws are setting in.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:26 AM   #42
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Haye wont beat Vitali in a month of sundays. But against Vlad he stands a VERY good chance. Vlad has never liked speedy punchers. Haye is both. The biggest problem Haye has is negating Vlads jab. That shouldnt prove too difficult if he can learn to keep his left up instead of dangling it at his waist. Then again he's been doing that since he turned pro. Old habits die hard.

I think Vital is in the same situation, he comes in prepared against guys Peter, Arreloa who dont.......and he looks more vunerable than before but he looks good becuase they basically plod forward and he hits them on the way in thus hiding the fact he isnt this incredibly strong, high volume punching machine in 2003-2004. He shown in his comback fights (4 of them) that he was very good fighter and all time great.....top 25 in history but still the writing is on the wall for him aswell.

I feel the matchmaking recently Johnson and Sosnowski is also a telling sign maybe.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:27 AM   #43
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Brilliant points but has past the level of good fighters, he is an elite level world operator now and he has the potential for all time greatness. He has to improve the flaws......Vladimir Klitshcko has improved and is far better now than he was 29 and so David needs the same ambition. Ruiz was a guy who took advantage of fighter far more talented than him, but them on will and determination. Still he was a decent fighter and good B level guy who won the WBA twice.....but when we are talking all time great fighters, or all time great contenders.....then Ruiz is just one of many decent fighters. Haye has a bunch of Guys coming through far more talented and better than Ruiz.

K. Pulev
R. Helnius
O. Solis
A. Povetkin
Being at the elite level doesn't somehow mean you can't still have your flaws. Being elite is about your strengths outweighing your opponents' strengths and your own weaknesses. We can't all be Ray Leonard and HE HAD HIS FAULTS IN HIS PRIME!

Honestly though, Povetkin? Get a hold of yourself.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:28 AM   #44
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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He shown in his comback fights (4 of them) that he was very good fighter and all time great.....top 25 in history but still the writing is on the wall for him aswell.
Again, get a hold of yourself: top 25 with HIS resume?
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:40 AM   #45
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

Ya i agree with some of the points, it was a bit of a mixed bag last night.

Haye frustrates me sometimes, he seem too interested in trying to look good then fighting correctly. He doesn't build his punches corrects, looks lackadaisical at times and then when he lands something goes in swinging wildly which ends up doing nothing. He never looks like he's balanced correctly and I hate this thing of keeping the left hand so low.

But last night did go better in some ways than I thought. He did throw some good combos at times, was very accurate with his punches which he picked his shot and controlled the fight well.

I can't see him improving on the fundamentals he's missing at this stage in the game, we just gotta accept what he's got now. At this stage I'd give him a shot against both Klits, Vitali cause he's getting older and older, and Wlad because he can be rushed and flustered.
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