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Old 04-04-2010, 08:45 AM   #46
Strike
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Originally Posted by ed7890 View Post
Ya i agree with some of the points, it was a bit of a mixed bag last night.

Haye frustrates me sometimes, he seem too interested in trying to look good then fighting correctly. He doesn't build his punches corrects, looks lackadaisical at times and then when he lands something goes in swinging wildly which ends up doing nothing. He never looks like he's balanced correctly and I hate this thing of keeping the left hand so low.

But last night did go better in some ways than I thought. He did throw some good combos at times, was very accurate with his punches which he picked his shot and controlled the fight well.

I can't see him improving on the fundamentals he's missing at this stage in the game, we just gotta accept what he's got now.
Agreed. The rushing in thing is very frustrating, because if he gave himself the room to pick his punches I think he would have ended it in the first round. That would have been a brilliant result. He did the same against Enzo Mac but managed to land a second cuffing shot that put him down. But he smothers his own work, gets the guy rocked and then tears in swinging and missing, but also draining himself.

Obviously the left hand thing wont change now. But using the jab more and keeping a cooler head are both things he could and should do.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:49 AM   #47
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Well I do appreciate him, which is why I said he is my "favourite fighter". But that doesn't mean I cannot be critical of a performance. If I felt he fought as well as he could, I wouldn't be critical, that would simply be his limit. But I don't feel that is the case. He has got a good jab, but he chooses to barely use it and instead look for counter rights or even lead rights. When he began to pop the jab out, it was snapping Ruiz's head back and yet he still only used it sporadically.

He is an underrated body puncher, and used body work well against Mormeck. And yet again last night he only did so on perhaps 2 occasions when Ruiz was often covering his face and backed up and thus giving the perfect opportunity to go to the body and bring the guard down.

And I am very concerned about his stamina.

I would LOVE him to beat the Klit brothers. But I actually see less and less chance of it happening with each new fight he has. Especially against Vitali, landing 3 big rights per round wont be enough. It wasn't slowing Ruiz down for most of the fight, so granite jawed Vitali will have no problem and yet will be sticking that jab in Hayes face constantly. Even if he chose not to open up and KO Haye he would breeze to a points win because Haye is so inactive in so many rounds.
I agree with the stamina issues and lack of the use of his jab, Strike, but this has always been an issue with Haye and is not a new problem. I don't have a problem with anyone being critical, but I do have a slight irk for only seeing negatives when there are positives to take from the fight as well. We've got a HW champ who has reignited a piss-poor division almost single-handedly and we should enjoy him whilst he's around, IMO.

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Your missing the point, the flaws that people have pointed out arent laced with personal insults towards the guy, he one of my fav fighters aswell along with Cotto but it dosent stop from sugar coating the guy becuase we like him. I want David to win against any of the top heavies, but its important was see the errors as we are the hardcore fans who knew david haye before the casual observer did. Dave should have taken him out quicker and Vladimir has improved from his Ibragimov, Thomspon, Rahman period. His fights against Chagaev and Chambers were the best we have seen from him.

Haye has the abilty to be a great fighter, its up to us to keep his motivation and filter through the pros and the cons. The worse thing for a fighter is think he has it all made.
My man, I appreciate it's nothing personal against Haye, but from my point of view I don't get the immediate pessimism following an exciting and, crucially, very good win. Perhaps it's more of a cultural British thing to find negatives when we should be looking at positives, I don't know.

Yes, if we're scrutinising, Haye does have obvious flaws and if you were designing an ultimate fighter you probably wouldn't mould them into the shape of Haye. That said, Haye also does a lot of things right as well and we should laud him for it. There are many similarities between Haye and Naz, IMO: Naz and Haye both keep their hands unecessarily low, both have/had a tendency to go off-balance looking to land a bomb and both have/had pretty shoddy defences. That being said, both were exciting to watch, both are/were awkward to fight against, both wanted the toughest challenges available ASAP and both do/did things their way and no-one elses.

I still fancy Haye's chances against a Klit and feel that the lack of sparring was a legitimate reason for some of Haye's defensive flaws during the fight last night- I was also surprised that Ruiz was actually pressuring as much as he was as well so it's plausible that it also took both Booth and Haye by surprise as well.

In spite of that, I enjoyed yet another Haye fight and look forward to the next. He's achieved a hell of a lot in relatively no time whatsoever and I am extremely proud that he is from this country as well. If the Klits exploit his flaws then fair play to them, but, equally, if Haye can exploit Vitali's tendency to cut and Wlad's china chin using his speed and power, then fair play to him as well. Either fight's outcome is far from a foregone conclusion and we can be guaranteed that whatever happens, Haye will turn up to win. I can see why some people think Haye hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell, but that's what makes either fight so intriguing and it's also what makes Haye so special- he actually wants the biggest challenges in an age when some fighters are all too happy to be protected.

Either way, I've been excited about HW boxing again ever since Haye moved into the division and I am just glad we are having these sort of debates.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:52 AM   #48
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

If he leaves his left hand down by his balls all night against Wladimir Klitschko he'll be eating through a tube for the rest of his life. At the range Haye kept Ruiz at all night Klitschko would be able to smack him with jabs at will, and throw in a right hand whenever he was feeling brave. I really hope Haye knows this and doesn't plan on fighting like that against heavyweights with a serious punch.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:55 AM   #49
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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The rushing in thing is very frustrating, because if he gave himself the room to pick his punches I think he would have ended it in the first round. That would have been a brilliant result. He did the same against Enzo Mac but managed to land a second cuffing shot that put him down. But he smothers his own work, gets the guy rocked and then tears in swinging and missing, but also draining himself.
There's another thread which went of on a bit of a tangent where people were disputing whether or not Haye is a good finisher.
I tend to agree with you and think that he's more often than not reckless, as illustrated last night.
Against Enzo Mac of the flurry that followed after Mac had been rocked initially, only one shot really landed. And that was the blow that ended the fight.
The finish against Mormeck was I think the exception rather than the rule.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:57 AM   #50
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

I do hate it when he starts winging in those wild clubbing shots when he has his man hurt, he should try and stay composed - if he did, then it would have been over sooner IMO.

BUT, I did think Haye did pretty good last night. Even though he seems to have stamina problems, he still carries his power into the later rounds - good sign if he fights Vitali - and he showed some very good accuracy (admittedly against a slow guy with little to no head movement). The jab was working well too
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:13 AM   #51
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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I do hate it when he starts winging in those wild clubbing shots when he has his man hurt, he should try and stay composed - if he did, then it would have been over sooner IMO.

BUT, I did think Haye did pretty good last night. Even though he seems to have stamina problems, he still carries his power into the later rounds - good sign if he fights Vitali - and he showed some very good accuracy (admittedly against a slow guy with little to no head movement). The jab was working well too
Despite Haye being heavy handed he's not a text book puncher which is a shame. Booth is doing a great job but i think Manny Steward would do wonders for Hayes technique and conditioning. So far Haye is getting by on talent alone. Like he said he's an athlete but he can do so much more if he fine tunes his game and deals with the obvious flaws if he wants to have a long tenure at heavy.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:18 AM   #52
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

If you'd have stopped up for the Jones vs Hopkins fight, you'd have appreciated the Haye fight a whole lot more.

I'm normally quite hard on Haye, but think he did OK, did the job. I think people are possibly believing his hype, he's not superman.

He wasn't wobbled, but I'm sure I saw one bit where he got caught and all of a sudden went a bit strange, quiet.

All in all though, I think it was a fairly professional performance, though through what looked like stamina issues, for a part of it late on, he went worryingly off type and looked a little like he could be hit by someone who wasn't slower than a snail.

Still, he got the job done against a durable experienced guy (though let's not forget it was a 38 year old version), I don't think we should be too harsh.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:42 AM   #53
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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I agree with the stamina issues and lack of the use of his jab, Strike, but this has always been an issue with Haye and is not a new problem. I don't have a problem with anyone being critical, but I do have a slight irk for only seeing negatives when there are positives to take from the fight as well. We've got a HW champ who has reignited a piss-poor division almost single-handedly and we should enjoy him whilst he's around, IMO.
I think people are getting carried away when they say this.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:08 AM   #54
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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I think people are getting carried away when they say this.
They are? People are excited to watch David Haye fight. They come away satisfied that they just a big, talented guy look for a knockout.

Arreola looks for a knockout but he can't get in shape, and Wladimir is like watching paint dry. Haye has made things more interesting, no question.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:18 AM   #55
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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I think people are getting carried away when they say this.
A week ago, a girl who never follows any sports at all, said to me "oh the world champion now, its some english guy isn't it".

Just shows, nobody outside of boxing has a clue who the Klits are, or the rest of the division, but people are picking up on Haye cause he's putting himself out there. They need Haye. I'm not always his biggest fan, but hell, boxing needs Haye. If we had a couple of American HWs worth getting excited about the division and the sport would be given one hell of a boost.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:29 AM   #56
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

The man himself admits he wasn't at his best:
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"My performance wasn't that great," said Haye. "It was entertaining, good for the crowd, but technically it wasn't as good as I'd have liked because I was taking way too many shots.

"The more of these tough fights I have the better I'll become. I'm nowhere near the complete article yet but I'm on the right road."
I agree, that wasn't David Haye at his best last night. Some of his sharpness and reflexes were lacking. Maybe he didn't need that extra weight?

As others have said, the jab was working great for him but he wasn't working it enough. The right hand, however, was being timed beautifully all night.

Based on that performance he would struggle more than I though against the Klitschko's but we've got to look at it from a styles viewpoint.

Ruiz was walking forward all night (alright he wasn't cutting the ring off but he was coming forward) and the Klits don't do that. Do you think Wlad will be walking Haye down? Will he ****, he'll want to keep his distance and get his jab going before sending the long, straight rights over.

I've said this before but Haye reckons he performs better against taller as opposed to shorter opponents and I'm inclined to agree with him. Look at the Frag, Mormeck fights where Haye had some trouble. Then look at the Valuev, Enzo Macc and Gurov fights.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:34 AM   #57
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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If youre happy to watch the Klitschkos robotically jab inferior fighters to a dull points decision then feel free to slag off David Haye's performance.
To be honest with you if the rest of the heavies could pull it off they would definitely do it, only it isn't as easy as it looks, and most of the time it ends in a stoppage rather than a points decision.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:35 AM   #58
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Being at the elite level doesn't somehow mean you can't still have your flaws. Being elite is about your strengths outweighing your opponents' strengths and your own weaknesses. We can't all be Ray Leonard and HE HAD HIS FAULTS IN HIS PRIME!

Honestly though, Povetkin? Get a hold of yourself.

Yeah Povetkin is a better fighter than Ruiz, he himself has obvious flaws....need his head movement to be side to side.

Of course all fighters have flaws but not obvious ones, when Haye fought Macrenelli i thought he was spot on, and perform A class.....against Barrett he performed well but got sloppy, Valuev he didnt thrown enough and with Ruiz took longer than he should considering how talented he is.

Vladimir i thought looked on the downward spiral when he fought Ibragimov (too tentative), thompson (average) and Rahman where he had a way past it fighter literally sitting in front of him.

In the end, if people expect average performances then so be it, but i want to see guys aiming to perform at there very best.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:37 AM   #59
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Again, get a hold of yourself: top 25 with HIS resume?

Yeah in heavyweight history?
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:44 AM   #60
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Default Re: I wasn't impressed with Haye at all...

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Originally Posted by Losfer_Words View Post
I agree with the stamina issues and lack of the use of his jab, Strike, but this has always been an issue with Haye and is not a new problem. I don't have a problem with anyone being critical, but I do have a slight irk for only seeing negatives when there are positives to take from the fight as well. We've got a HW champ who has reignited a piss-poor division almost single-handedly and we should enjoy him whilst he's around, IMO.



My man, I appreciate it's nothing personal against Haye, but from my point of view I don't get the immediate pessimism following an exciting and, crucially, very good win. Perhaps it's more of a cultural British thing to find negatives when we should be looking at positives, I don't know.

Yes, if we're scrutinising, Haye does have obvious flaws and if you were designing an ultimate fighter you probably wouldn't mould them into the shape of Haye. That said, Haye also does a lot of things right as well and we should laud him for it. There are many similarities between Haye and Naz, IMO: Naz and Haye both keep their hands unecessarily low, both have/had a tendency to go off-balance looking to land a bomb and both have/had pretty shoddy defences. That being said, both were exciting to watch, both are/were awkward to fight against, both wanted the toughest challenges available ASAP and both do/did things their way and no-one elses.

I still fancy Haye's chances against a Klit and feel that the lack of sparring was a legitimate reason for some of Haye's defensive flaws during the fight last night- I was also surprised that Ruiz was actually pressuring as much as he was as well so it's plausible that it also took both Booth and Haye by surprise as well.

In spite of that, I enjoyed yet another Haye fight and look forward to the next. He's achieved a hell of a lot in relatively no time whatsoever and I am extremely proud that he is from this country as well. If the Klits exploit his flaws then fair play to them, but, equally, if Haye can exploit Vitali's tendency to cut and Wlad's china chin using his speed and power, then fair play to him as well. Either fight's outcome is far from a foregone conclusion and we can be guaranteed that whatever happens, Haye will turn up to win. I can see why some people think Haye hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell, but that's what makes either fight so intriguing and it's also what makes Haye so special- he actually wants the biggest challenges in an age when some fighters are all too happy to be protected.

Either way, I've been excited about HW boxing again ever since Haye moved into the division and I am just glad we are having these sort of debates.

Without doubt i agree, i just want him to do better........i feel the likes of Hatton and Calzaghe get away with praise becuase they hit mainstream but for me never showed real all time great abilty.....Haye does. I just have an a feeling that the writing is on the wall......same when Tyson fought Bruno and Williams before Douglas.....he was winning and knocking them out but started to forget his fundamentals.

It dosent matter if Haye increases weight as long as its solid muscle, he is starting to look softer.

If i were in his team i would be looking D. Bahktov and fighting him in 6 to 8 weeks (the guy will take the fight) he is in the top 15 for the WBA and it keeps david in shape and motivated.

At the moment the division is becoming hotter and hotter...there are guys out there like Pulev who is taking the likes of Skelton in his 5th fight, Helnius took out a past it Brewster in his 11th fight, .......Solis (fat sod) is incredibly talented and has huge starting/ static strength which Dave has none of.
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