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Old 04-07-2010, 09:40 AM   #16
MattMattMatt
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by Govanmauler View Post
p4p was invented basically for SRR.
That's just a myth. The phrase 'pound for pound' existed before SRR, and probably before boxing.

Here is a newspaper article refering to a boxer in a pound for pound sense seven years before SRR was even born:

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Regarding the initial question, the original meaning of 'pound for pound' it is simply to do with comparison between fighters of different weight, and while actually fighting those of different weights may aid in forming an opinion on someones pound for pound status, it had nothing to do with the meaning (however, meanings change over time, in this case perhaps due to misinterpretation).

Some more mentions before SRR was born:

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:45 AM   #17
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Pound for pound has nothing to do with weight jumping. It's just like saying, if everyone was the same size, who would be the best? For example, Hopkins was P4P #1 for a while, even though he'd only fought at middleweight.
This. I think it has a lot to do with form aswell, a boxer going on an impressive streak of wins. I think a lot of people confuse P4P as being the skill level of said boxer, but in my opinion, skill level is not the greatest factor in becoming highly ranked P4P.
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

Also, I think The Ring are beginning to lose the meaning of P4P. It seems as though the more recognized boxers world wide can be guaranteed a spot in the top 10, even if they are very inactive. A few of the names on the P4P top 10 are there simply because they are big names.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
It's either me or people are just stupid. I thought 'P4P' was actually IN THE NAME meaning 'Pound for Pound' so you only fit in the rankings if you've dominated in multiple weight classes, yet I see names like:

David Haye
Froch
Direll
Edwin Valero
Timothy Bradley- How?? He's been at the same weight class his whole proffessional career.
AND MANY MORE.

Can people PLEASE get the meaning of P4P RIGHT. You aint P4P if you just beat one credible opponent in your division. God, it makes people look like retards when they say they're P4P.

---Correct me if I'm wrong (y)
That isn't what it means at all. Yet you're calling other people "stupid". How ironic.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:05 AM   #21
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Pound for pound has nothing to do with weight jumping. It's just like saying, if everyone was the same size, who would be the best? For example, Hopkins was P4P #1 for a while, even though he'd only fought at middleweight.
Exactly how i think of P4P.

Btw Lazurus no need to think of ppl as retards just cause they have a different opinion!!!! P4P is always more subjective so therefore everyones list can be different.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:06 AM   #22
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by El Cepillo View Post
That isn't what it means at all. Yet you're calling other people "stupid". How ironic.
It was my thought on it. And saying people were 'stupid' was me just raging a bit. Sorry about that. I've seen quite a few opinions actually and mine was included so I don't know why you say that's not what it means.

How about you give your opinion, just like everyone else before you say that's not what it means.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:07 AM   #23
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by kgs83 View Post
Exactly how i think of P4P.

Btw Lazurus no need to think of ppl as retards just cause they have a different opinion!!!! P4P is always more subjective so therefore everyones list can be different.
Yeah sorry about that. Bit of a rage moment.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:08 AM   #24
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Pound for pound has nothing to do with weight jumping. It's just like saying, if everyone was the same size, who would be the best? For example, Hopkins was P4P #1 for a while, even though he'd only fought at middleweight.
It doesn't mean that at all. That's the most commonly believed myth in boxing. It boggles the mind how it is so commonly believed though, because if you think about it, that's really really stupid.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:19 AM   #25
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
It doesn't mean that at all. That's the most commonly believed myth in boxing. It boggles the mind how it is so commonly believed though, because if you think about it, that's really really stupid.
Which bit are you saying it doesn't mean? Pound for pound is a used as a way to compare fighters that are in different weight classes, surely you can't be disagreeing with that? Check out the links I provided in my earlier post...people were using the phrase to compare different size boxers a hundred years ago.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:37 AM   #26
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

The term Pound for Pound wasn't "invented" for SRR but he was one of the first boxers that this term was applied to and the most recognized as Thee P4P greatest. Lately this term has been used very lightly by the media which is why the meaning has changed so drasticly. P4p was based on over-all ability and was a title that didn't change hands with a loss now it's basicly based on money, undefeated records, and how many big names are on your resume.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:40 AM   #27
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
I thought 'P4P' was actually IN THE NAME meaning 'Pound for Pound' so you only fit in the rankings if you've dominated in multiple weight classes, yet I see names like:

David Haye
Froch
Direll
Edwin Valero
Timothy Bradley- How?? He's been at the same weight class his whole proffessional career.
AND MANY MORE.

Can people PLEASE get the meaning of P4P RIGHT. You aint P4P if you just beat one credible opponent in your division. God.

---Correct me if I'm wrong (y)

EDIT: Changed a few offensive wording as I had a rage moment. Sorry, no damage intended ;D
P4P is a hypothetical discussion based on subjective criteria that each observer decides for themselves.

Therefore, you are clearly wrong simply because there is no 'right', there is just different opinions.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:42 AM   #28
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMattMatt View Post
Regarding the initial question, the original meaning of 'pound for pound' it is simply to do with comparison between fighters of different weight, and while actually fighting those of different weights may aid in forming an opinion on someones pound for pound status, it had nothing to do with the meaning
This is the definition that I find matches most clearly to my own in the thread so far.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:49 AM   #29
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
I thought 'P4P' was actually IN THE NAME meaning 'Pound for Pound' so you only fit in the rankings if you've dominated in multiple weight classes, yet I see names like:

David Haye
Froch
Direll
Edwin Valero
Timothy Bradley- How?? He's been at the same weight class his whole proffessional career.
AND MANY MORE.

Can people PLEASE get the meaning of P4P RIGHT. You aint P4P if you just beat one credible opponent in your division. God.

---Correct me if I'm wrong (y)

EDIT: Changed a few offensive wording as I had a rage moment. Sorry, no damage intended ;D
I don;t think you get pound for pound dude. Sorry. It has nothing to do with howmany weight classes you've fought in. Its an imaginary ranking system that theorizes how different opponents would do against eachother if they fought. It has nothing to do with weight divisions. And everything to do with Talent and fighting style.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:51 AM   #30
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Default Re: Can People Seriously Get The 'P4P' Meaning Right!

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Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Pound for pound has nothing to do with weight jumping. It's just like saying, if everyone was the same size, who would be the best? For example, Hopkins was P4P #1 for a while, even though he'd only fought at middleweight.
another way of seeing it is "relative to his size, how good is this boxer" because obviously a heavyweight will be a better fighter than a flyweight in the ring but RELATIVE TO HIS SIZE the flyweight might be better.

The whole concept of pound for pound is a ratio of overall ability / size.

Ability is not just technical ability it includes things like skills, strength, power, chin, etc which means that of course a bigger fighter has more ability because he is bigger. But relative to his size, its different.

The same way a male boxer might be better than a female boxer due to physical advantages but the female boxer could be better relative to her gender.
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