Tommy Hearns vs. Oscar De La Hoya

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Tell me this JT. Why does Hearns have a reputation as having a weak chin, yet De La Hoya on the other hand has the reputation as having a solid chin?.

Now, Im not saying De La Hoya has a Hagler like chin, and Hearns on the otherhand has one of the worst chins in history. Hearns was much more vulnerable at showing the effects of his opponents punches, aka being wobbled and being all over the place.

P4P Oscar probably has a better chin but he is fighting a naturally bigger man in Hearns, so his chin had better be better than Hearn's in a P4P sense just to be on equal footing with him at 147 when they trade shots.

This fight is going to take place at 147. At 147 we saw Hearns get troubled by SRL on a couple of occasions. Who here can tell me with a straight face that DLH wouldn't have been in trouble with SRL at 147 on a couple of occasions, and most probably stopped in a 15 rounder?

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

That´s because he 5 rounds (against the likes of Primera, Shields, etc.), DLH was another calibre...

A calibre equal to SRL? If not, then it's irrelevant.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

A calibre equal to SRL? If not, then it's irrelevant.

I meant to the opponents Hearns faced before SRL, because you sounded in your last post so, if Hearns never showed any stamina issues, but the truth is, that we don´t know it, because he rarely went the distance at 147 lbs (and if, than against mediocre opponents), IMO Hearns at his best was at 154 lbs, 147 lbs I don´t know...

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Tell me this JT. Why does Hearns have a reputation as having a weak chin, yet De La Hoya on the other hand has the reputation as having a solid chin?.

Now, Im not saying De La Hoya has a Hagler like chin, and Hearns on the otherhand has one of the worst chins in history. Hearns was much more vulnerable at showing the effects of his opponents punches, aka being wobbled and being all over the place.

Never mind reputations Robbi, you simply aren't comparing apples with apples. You have compared their chins directly. It matters little that Hearns was wobbled or stopped vs this one or that, their list of opposition comparative to size, greatness and ability to stop someone is vastly different. When you compare their chins directly you have to take into account how DLH would have fared vs the opposition and punches Hearns fought and took. They are very differently sized fighters who fought differently sized and powered men.

Hearns has one of the worst chins in history??

You say this

I would go as far to say if anyone thinks Hearns has a better chin than De La Hoya, your either a Hearns nuthugger or a De La Hoya hater.

But then you come up with this

Hearns on the otherhand has one of the worst chins in history.

I know which statement is closer to "hater" status. Seriously. I find the above a very narrow statement.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

I meant to the opponents Hearns faced before SRL, because you sounded in your last post so, if Hearns never showed any stamina issues, but the truth is, that we don´t know it, because he rarely went the distance at 147 lbs (and if, than against mediocre opponents), IMO Hearns at his best was at 154 lbs, 147 lbs I don´t know...

Well we saw Hearn's stamina stretched to its limits against Ray Leonard. He is as good a litmus test as anyone. Hearns basically boxed on the move for half the fight and lasted 14 rounds. If he can do that against Ray, I don't see what DLH could do to expose his stamina, becuase he isn't as active nor as hard punching imo as SRL at 147.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

Never mind reputations Robbi, you simply aren't comparing apples with apples. You have compared their chins directly. It matters little that Hearns was wobbled or stopped vs this one or that, their list of opposition comparative to size, greatness and ability to stop someone is vastly different. When you compare their chins directly you have to take into account how DLH would have fared vs the opposition and punches Hearns fought and took. They are very differently sized fighters who fought differently sized and powered men.

Hearns has one of the worst chins in history??

You say this



But then you come up with this



I know which statement is closer to "hater" status. Seriously. I find the above a very narrow statement.

He wrote it so:



"Now, Im not saying De La Hoya has a Hagler like chin, and Hearns on the otherhand has one of the worst chins in history." -Robbi-

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

P4P Oscar probably has a better chin but he is fighting a naturally bigger man in Hearns, so his chin had better be better than Hearn's in a P4P sense just to be on equal footing with him at 147 when they trade shots.

This fight is going to take place at 147. At 147 we saw Hearns get troubled by SRL on a couple of occasions. Who here can tell me with a straight face that DLH wouldn't have been trouble with SRL at 147 on a couple of occasions, and most probably stopped in a 15 rounder?

Personally I see De La Hoya being able to withstand the power of Leonard's shots, but he would lose a decision. Im not sure Leonard had that much power over Mosley at 147lbs, maybe a slight edge.

On a skill sense I think De La Hoya measures up well against Leonard and Hearns.

But looking back over De La Hoya's career and how many disputed decisions for and against he's been involved in, its a very tall order to make a case for him beating Leonard or Hearns.

If Leonard or Hearns went up against Chavez, lets say they were slightly smaller and made 140lbs and had De La Hoya's power, do you think they could distmantle Chavez in a more impressive fashion than De La Hoya. I think not. Thats what im talking about regarding skill. Ok thats maybe unrealistic fantasy thinking, but Im sure you know where Im coming from.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

Well we saw Hearn's stamina stretched to its limits against Ray Leonard. He is as good a litmus test as anyone. Hearns basically boxed on the move for half the fight and lasted 14 rounds. If he can do that against Ray, I don't see what DLH could do to expose his stamina, becuase he isn't as active nor as hard punching imo as SRL at 147.

DLH would fight way more aggressive, and this would be good against Hearns, because outboxing Hearns at the lower weight doesn´t fit...

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

Hearns has one of the worst chins in history??

You say this



But then you come up with this



I know which statement is closer to "hater" status. Seriously. I find the above a very narrow statement.

Naw, picked me up wrong. I said De La Hoya never had a Hagler like chin, and on otherhand Hearns had one of the worst chins in history.

Meaning, De La Hoya never a granite chin, and Hearns never had one of the worst chins in history. My mistake. I should have worded it better.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Naw, picked me up wrong. I said De La Hoya never had a Hagler like chin, and on otherhand Hearns had one of the worst chins in history.

Meaning, De La Hoya never a granite chin, and Hearns never had one of the worst chins in history. My mistake. I should have worded it better.

I understood what you mean, but that´s something different, my English is faultless and worth seeing...

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Personally I see De La Hoya being able to withstand the power of Leonard's shots, but he would lose a decision. Im not sure Leonard had that much power over Mosley at 147lbs, maybe a slight edge.

What damage did Mosley do at 147 to be even compared to SRL? He stopped no one of any rea quality. He landed some flush shots, pretty much teed off on DLH at 147 in the 12th, and DLH did nothing but slightly wobble. Put that down to DLH having a good chin if you want. I put it down to Shane not having that much power and DLh having a pretty good beard.

On a skill sense I think De La Hoya measures up well against Leonard and Hearns.

I think he is inferior to both, but not by leagues.

But looking back over De La Hoya's career and how many disputed decisions for and against he's been involved in, its a very tall over to make a care for him beating Leonard or Hearns.

I think a lot of those disputed decisions come down to him NOT having the skills of a Leonard or Hearns.

If Leonard or Hearns went up against Chavez, lets say they were slightly smaller and made 140lbs and had De La Hoya's power, do you think they could distmantle Chavez in a more impressive fashion than De La Hoya. I think not. Thats what im talking about regarding skill. Ok thats maybe unrealistic fantasy thinking, but Im sure you know where Im coming from.

Give Chavez a pre-existing cut and I think a 140 Leonard or Hearns do everything Oscar did and then some.

A more interesting thing to do is ask whether you think there would be controversy at the end of the Whitaker, Quartey and Tito fights if it was SRL and Hearns in there with those fighters, of if they would lose to Shane Mosley. I think the answer is a resounding 'HELL NO'.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

I understood what you mean, but that´s something different, my English is faultless and worth seeing...

Your probably right my statement on De La Hoya not having a Hagler like chin ties in cohesively with Hearns having the worst chin in history. "Im not saying" is followed by both statements.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

DLH would fight way more aggressive, and this would be good against Hearns, because outboxing Hearns at the lower weight doesn´t fit...

He would? Based on what?

The Tito fight?

The Quartey fight?

Heck, the Pea fight?

Which fight did he stalk a fighter with half of Hearn's arsenal down and stop them?

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

He would? Based on what?

The Tito fight?

The Quartey fight?

Heck, the Pea fight?

Which fight did he stalk a fighter with half of Hearn's arsenal down and stop them?

Where did I write that he would fight aggressive to stop Hearns? I simply meant, that he (DLH was a master in accommodation to the current opponent) was smart enough to fight aggressive against Hearns, because that´s the only way he can win, hurt Hearns with fast and unpredictable combinations...

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

What damage did Mosley do at 147 to be even compared to SRL? He stopped no one of any rea quality. He landed some flush shots, pretty much teed off on DLH at 147 in the 12th, and DLH did nothing but slightly wobble. Put that down to DLH having a good chin if you want. I put it down to Shane not having that much power and DLh having a pretty good beard.



I think he is inferior to both, but not by leagues.



I think a lot of those disputed decisions come down to him NOT having the skills of a Leonard or Hearns.



Give Chavez a pre-existing cut and I think a 140 Leonard or Hearns do everything Oscar did and then some.

A more interesting thing to do is ask whether you think there would be controversy at the end of the Whitaker, Quartey and Tito fights if it was SRL and Hearns in there with those fighters, of if they would lose to Shane Mosley. I think the answer is a resounding 'HELL NO'.

Yeah, I agree JT. He would have been beaten by both, im not disputing it. But skillwise I think he's right up there. De La Hoya never closed the show against Trinidad, but thats a mental aspect more than anything. De La Hoya never had the same killer instinct as Leonard, and never had the power of Hearns to turn close fights into wins.

I don't think Leonard or Hearns could have done a better job against Chavez if they were a similar size to De La Hoya with comparble power. I do concede thats going off the rails a bit, and its fantasy thinking.