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Old 05-21-2010, 11:33 PM   #16
Fitir
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Default Re: How Good Was Fabrice Tiozzo

Tiozzo had some serious weak points at world level. He had a good variety of punches but he never moved well in the ring for example. Against guys like Hill he had problems DM hadn't. DM was a warrior but he could deal with technicians, he was able to cut the ring more effectively and he was far more complete as a boxer. Tiozzo could appear brilliant or seriously limited and he was never dedicated to his sport. What he had was massive natural strength (different from power), it was really something amazing but against a good technician it's useless.
DM came into the ring against the "bear" with no match plan and no footwork. They basically exchanged punches in the middle of the ring and it gave Tiozzo the opportunity to use his strength, it's exactly what he needed to look good.
DM deserves some respect in this defeat. He had still a champ's mentality even if it was clear after 1 round that he had not the tools. He had a chin and a heart, some bloody instant pics show well the punches he had successfully eaten through the fight. I don't know many LHW (including US "stars") who could have stayed so static 6 rounds in front of Tiozzo.

Last edited by Fitir; 05-21-2010 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:31 AM   #17
emanuel_augustus
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Default Re: How Good Was Fabrice Tiozzo

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Originally Posted by Axe View Post
You are calling a two-weight WORLD champ a EUROPEAN-level fighter?

What are you smoking.

Tiozzo wasn't the most astonishing fighter 175 has ever seen, but he was a solid world champion with good boxing skills, decent chin and a fair bit of pop in his fists.

He was probably the best European LHW behind Michalczewski during the 1990s, even ahead of Henry Maske. He KOed Michalczewski, but that was a shot, coming out of retirement version who had somehow forgotten how to jab.

Prime for prime these two would have had a real war with Michalczewski coming out on top via UD or late stoppage, in my opinion.

Overall Tiozzo was a very good fighter with borderline Hall of Fame talent and resume, but a bit of a dedication problem.
Uh, I think you're the one smoking something by saying "borderline hof talent." Tiozzo was not a world championship level fighter despite the fact that he held a belt. I'll give you the good performances against Hill (the first, which was still a loss; we'll overlook the first round ko loss) and Eric Lucas. McCallum was washed up when Tiozzo beat him.

We can talk resume for WBA Cruiserweight world title fights: Nate Miller (a weak champ), Terry Ray (club fighter), Pazquiel (journeyman), Ken Murphy (huh), Vikhor (not good), and oops pounded out by Hill. Not a hall of fame resume by any stretch.

I'm not insulting him by saying "Euro" level fighter, he was a solid pro and one of the best on the Euro level, but was never even talked about really in the world mix even at 175 as a top guy. DM was far better in his prime, as was Maske. I like Tiozzo, but be real when assessing his career.
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:08 PM   #18
Fitir
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Default Re: How Good Was Fabrice Tiozzo

Tiozzo is not "euro" level even if he lacks defining fights. French LHW who were euro level at the same time were Sahnoune, Girard, Serrat etc. Tiozzo was far more dangerous but he was lazy and unable to manage his career. With a good promoter and a good team I think he would have had a far better career, Sahnoune, Girard etc. couldn't have done better than they did.
It was not a very good performance against Lucas. OK Tiozzo was bigger and stronger and he won nearly every round but the guy who impressed the crowd was Lucas cause he fought with much heart.
It was clear from that fight that Tiozzo would never be a great champ. After the fight he left the LHW div cause he claimed he was not able to make weight anymore. It was completely false since he was able to make the LHW limit for Branco many years later (making the LHW limit at this stage of his career is probably his best performance in fact)

Last edited by Fitir; 05-22-2010 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:44 AM   #19
emanuel_augustus
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Default Re: How Good Was Fabrice Tiozzo

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Originally Posted by Fitir View Post
Tiozzo is not "euro" level even if he lacks defining fights. French LHW who were euro level at the same time were Sahnoune, Girard, Serrat etc. Tiozzo was far more dangerous but he was lazy and unable to manage his career. With a good promoter and a good team I think he would have had a far better career, Sahnoune, Girard etc. couldn't have done better than they did.
It was not a very good performance against Lucas. OK Tiozzo was bigger and stronger and he won nearly every round but the guy who impressed the crowd was Lucas cause he fought with much heart.
It was clear from that fight that Tiozzo would never be a great champ. After the fight he left the LHW div cause he claimed he was not able to make weight anymore. It was completely false since he was able to make the LHW limit for Branco many years later (making the LHW limit at this stage of his career is probably his best performance in fact)
You can't evaluate a guy's career based on hypotheticals. "Would have" doesn't cut it. Based on resume, Bruno Girard was actually more of a world level fighter than Tiozzo was.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: How Good Was Fabrice Tiozzo

Girard has a better resume...it sounds completely incredible when you consider the raw potential of those guys but you're probably right.
Tiozzo's performance for Hill 1 at 23 with 0 experience at euro level was in fact very good. It was just completely stupid at this stage of his career. I don't think many LHW who ended their careers with very good records could have done better in the same conditions.
Compare the management of DM and Tiozzo's careers for example. DM obtained the benefits of a progressive evolution concerning the level of opposition, his first title shot was far to be against a guy like Hill etc. Tiozzo is a perfect example of a bad management but there are many hints of what he could have done. When Axe says "borderline HOF talent" I think he's completely right but it's just my opinion cause in terms of resume it's far to be right I have to agree... That said considering your nickname you could understand what he means.
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