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Old 10-14-2007, 09:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by red cobra
If he was American, or even spoke English and smiled more, he'd be considered a legend, right up there with Ali, Leonard, Duran and De La Hoya. Of course, he was at least as great as Ali, and better than the others I mentioned.
He was an utter cunt and still he is up there with Ali, Leonard, Duran and he is beyond DLH. Unless of course you're talking about popularity.
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by boydsmith
**** boring, he did what he had to do, nobody could beat him when he started his roll, i honestly dont think anyone in history could have beaten him in his peak, nobody.
Well put. Exactly. "Boring" means nothing. He was coldly effective and beat everybody in his time, real monster fighters. Back in the seventies, I could count on him every time, no matter who he fought. He was totally in control and never lost his cool, no matter what happened. My favorite fighter, I believe.
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:51 AM   #18
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by red cobra
Well put. Exactly. "Boring" means nothing. He was coldly effective and beat everybody in his time, real monster fighters. Back in the seventies, I could count on him every time, no matter who he fought. He was totally in control and never lost his cool, no matter what happened. My favorite fighter, I believe.
Couldnt have put that better myself alsoHe is and always has been my favourite ever fighter.
Even when people say he was boring/not the quickest(yawn), like you said i tend to disagree. I could watch his fights all day long, and their are few other fighters i can say that about other thasn the likes of Duran, Arguello etc
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
He was an utter cunt and still he is up there with Ali, Leonard Duran and he is beyond DLH. Unless of course you're talking about popularity.
I'm not considering him as a person. He had a cruel, really mean look about him that wasn't a put on, or theatrical. Being a monster probably helped him as a fighter. I bet nobody screwed with him in prison. Like I said, he was as least as good as Ali, despite all of Ali's bells and whistles and charisma. It's kind of hard to compare two great fighters of different divisions, but the rest of those mentioned were in or near his weight class and if matced up, he would have beaten them with room to spare. Leonard by a decision or late tko, and Duran and Oscar he would have beaten like rag dolls, all coldly and systematically. He would have really hurt those guys.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:02 AM   #20
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by red cobra
I'm not considering him as a person. He had a cruel, really mean look about him that wasn't a put on, or theatrical. Being a monster probably helped him as a fighter. I bet nobody screwed with him in prison. Like I said, he was as least as good as Ali, despite all of Ali's bells and whistles and charisma. It's kind of hard to compare two great fighters of different divisions, but the rest of those mentioned were in or near his weight class and if matced up, he would have beaten them with room to spare. Leonard by a decision or late tko, and Duran and Oscar he would have beaten like rag dolls, all coldly and systematically. He would have really hurt those guys.
I ****ing love your descriptions of him, reminds me why he's my numero uno
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:20 AM   #21
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by boydsmith
I ****ing love your descriptions of him, reminds me why he's my numero uno
Thanks, I've been a boxing fan from about the time of Sonny Liston, and the seventies for me was the golden decade of boxing. Monzon always impressed me the most because I really liked his style, all serious and no kid stuff. The cold, calculating approach with no hot tempered, emotional mistakes always appealed to me. Monzon's style always put some people off, but like I said, that didn't matter at all.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:43 AM   #22
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

I do not think that he did enough to warant a top 5 pound for pound spot.

If you want those kind of honours you better be ready to go beyond your natural weight class against other all time greats.
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Old 10-14-2007, 02:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
I consider him the greatest middleweight of all time and one of the top 10 of all time pound-for-pound(top five is debatable) as it is.
I agree.
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Old 10-14-2007, 05:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

how do people here think monzon would have fared against hagler?
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Old 10-14-2007, 05:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

Nobody has a serious claim to be a pound for pound top 10 unless they step up in weight to beat an all time great.

That is the basic requirment.
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Old 10-14-2007, 05:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by janitor
Nobody has a serious claim to be a pound for pound top 10 unless they step up in weight to beat an all time great.

That is the basic requirment.
Galindez and bob foster were the champs during his title run, its not like benny leonard beat a welterweight thats considered top 10 of all times and willie pep never beat a top 10 lightweight. Monzon is top 10.
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Old 10-14-2007, 05:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
How in the hell do you come to that conclusion? Monzon's resume is a good one, very good, but most guys he beat were smaller, and his early career was loaded with nobodies. Surely not top 10.
Valdez and briscoe were not smaller then him. His overall resume is better than willie peps.
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Old 10-14-2007, 05:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Willie Pep had way more fights though, and a lot of his greatness, as I've explained, is based more on how he fought than anything. His movements and style were revolutionary, and a lot of it had more to do with how he fought than who he fought, though he did prove himself against top competition. And he dominated his division even longer than Monzon.

Also, let's not forget the plane crash he came back from and continued to fight well. All that said, I rank Pep at #11.
Yeah he just fought more bums, only 10% of his opponents were contenders, if even that. Monzon is 15-0 in LINEAR title fights, which is unheard of, hes so great. There is no doubt that guys like bogs, mundine, licate, boutier and brsicoe would hold abc middleweight belts in todays era. He beat 2 atg welters, 2 top 15 middleweights, what more could u ask, that he beat galindez or foster, get real man. Benny Leonard never beat a top 10 welterweight, pep didnt beat a top 10 lightweight, so to me its irrelevant.
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
A lot more in order to be considered top 10. He was a huge MW beating up smaller fighters. And Benny Leonard also had a better resume at LW than Monzon at MW. Also, I'm not the one who came up with the theory of having to move up in weight class to be a top 10, that was Janitor, I don't fully agree.
hagler also fought smaller guys.
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: *Monzon - True or false, if he was American he'd be top 5 P4P all time?*

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
But of better quality than Monzon, and I don't rate Hagler top 10 either, but he's a couple spots higher, both in the top 20.
how are hearns an duran better quality than griffith and napoles? Monzon for sure beat better middleweights than hagler.
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