Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-19-2013, 11:18 AM   #136
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
So your argument is based on the fact that you think that Louis was consistently sucesful in avoiding a certain type of punch, and you think that this might be the one night when he dosn't avoid it, and therfore we might see something we havn't seen before?
No my argument is Lennox is about 10 levels above any of Joe's opponents and if he hit Joe with the punches Schmelling/Walcott/Braddock hit him with then Joe would be ko'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Louis would certainly have tasted comparable power before.
None of Joe's opponents where near as powerful as Lennox and none of the hitters would land with near the accuracy and speed Lennox could and would

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
No it is not more proven because he got stopped twice by single punches, where Louis didn't.
No Joe got ko'd twice by Crusers, see how we're going round in a circle here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Therfore Louis's chin is more proven against big punchers.
The big punchers he faced generally barely landed, Lennox has taken more punches from big punchers without being ko'd than Joe ever managed

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Ramhan got his opportunity partly due to luck, but Louis would have the skillset and generalship to make the opportunity.
Lennox didn't take Rahman seriously, he would take Joe seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Its not just that Schmeling is greater than Rahman, its also the fact that he had to hit Louis with everything but the kitchen sink to get him out of there.
Usually smaller men going up in weight can't make an impact against bigger opponents, they just don't have the weight behind their punches.

This fight shows how porous Joe's defense is against quicker men.


Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
If one man was stopped by a sustained beating from a 190lb Evander Holyfield over 12 rounds, and another was knocked cold by a single punch from Sam Peter, you would conclude that the latter fighter had greater durability issues.
Well Holyfield landed everything he could on Lennox and couldn't budge him, Rahman and McCall could as they had.

The 200lb Louis probably wouldn't affect a Lennox too much either with 1 shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
They won't do more damage with onhe punch than the smaller guy can do over 12 rounds.
Except they typically do, the bigger the punch the more concussive, whether in the 1st or last round

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I can accept that argument, though McCall might just have finished him anyway.
HE was on shaky legs, if he hung on and got his legs back and took less silly chances he'd have ran away with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP_Mauler View Post
The point is Lennox would not land on Mayweather. You're too focused on the size when Lennox size would not be a advantage its a disadvantage.
FFS Lennox would walk Floyd down in seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP_Mauler View Post
Did Lennox ever face Byrd?? I wonder why
Perhaps because he was getting a career high payday against Mike Tyson instead
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-19-2013, 11:38 AM   #137
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,811
vCash: 500
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
i love the reference to haystack. beautiful

yeah what burt said. ****ing size means something if you use it. lennox used it, wlad continues to use it. so it's an advantage for them and a tool in their toolbox. any given night they would give louis hell imo

****ing most cruiserweights? cunningham would beat louis? what about going up against a monster like tyson fury?

neither of them would last any longer than louis would deem fit to let than last
J, we must remember that what a mastodon sized heavyweight gains in
heft behind a punch, he MUST lose in speed and dexterity in his punching
combinations...The law of physics and observations. Yes A Lennox Lewis or a George Foreman could obliterate anyone they hit solidly, no doubt. But I have always observed that the faster puncher who can hit hard with combinations ala Joe Louis , most often wins a fight...And Joe Louis at 200 pounds of explosive punching, unparalelled leverage and timing, would
ko anyone he hurts...Anyone, be it a Lewis, Foreman, Ali etc, would succumb to a prime Louis deadly salvo....I remember the wise words of a
prominent physician of the 1930s who stated," the human body was not
built to survive the onslaught of Joe Louis's punches once he had you hurt"
and I concur. People today don't realize that when Joe Louis was in his prime, he was considered every bit as deadly as his friend welterweight Ray Robinson, by the boxing fraternity of those times. The Joe Louis of the Max Baer fight who decimated the truly iron chinned Max Baer and in the next fight flattened the George Chuvalo of his time Paolino Uzcudun, with
one right hand that knocked Uzcudun's front teeth out alongst with his mouthpiece would have kod the bigger, slower puncher Lennox Lewis
I am convinced...cheers...
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 12:20 PM   #138
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
J, we must remember that what a mastodon sized heavyweight gains in
heft behind a punch, he MUST lose in speed and dexterity in his punching
combinations...The law of physics and observations.
Aye, but that's assuming everyone starts off with the same material. Lennox is so special because he bucks that general trend by being both huge and explosive in combinations.

It'd be nice if everyone is equal when everything is totted up, but that's not so.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 12:20 PM   #139
dyna
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,363
vCash: 1551
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
J, we must remember that what a mastodon sized heavyweight gains in
heft behind a punch, he MUST lose in speed and dexterity in his punching
combinations...
The law of physics and observations. Yes A Lennox Lewis or a George Foreman could obliterate anyone they hit solidly, no doubt. But I have always observed that the faster puncher who can hit hard with combinations ala Joe Louis , most often wins a fight...And Joe Louis at 200 pounds of explosive punching, unparalelled leverage and timing, would
ko anyone he hurts...Anyone, be it a Lewis, Foreman, Ali etc, would succumb to a prime Louis deadly salvo....I remember the wise words of a
prominent physician of the 1930s who stated," the human body was not
built to survive the onslaught of Joe Louis's punches once he had you hurt"
and I concur. People today don't realize that when Joe Louis was in his prime, he was considered every bit as deadly as his friend welterweight Ray Robinson, by the boxing fraternity of those times. The Joe Louis of the Max Baer fight who decimated the truly iron chinned Max Baer and in the next fight flattened the George Chuvalo of his time Paolino Uzcudun, with
one right hand that knocked Uzcudun's front teeth out alongst with his mouthpiece would have kod the bigger, slower puncher Lennox Lewis
I am convinced...cheers...
Not true, Andy Ruiz Jr at a FAT 256 lbs throws faster combinations than most light heavies.
At 200 lbs Ali was like a middleweight
Roy Jones Jr is faster than all except maybe 2 or 3 or so boxers ever even at smw.
Wlad is faster than most 200 lbs+ guys.

Louis was slower than the bigger Ali especially his feet much were slower.

Usain Bolt is 210 lbs for gods sake.
Besides Usain Bolt only one other man who was in the top 10 in the olympics was above 200 lbs.
(Second fastest ever 200/100 meter man is Yohan Blake at 166 pounds)
There is little/no colleration between speed and size as far as I can see in the top 10 olympics sprinting 2012.

Heavy men CAN be as fast as smaller men.

And when a big man is as fast as the smaller man, the smaller man has a big problem.
dyna is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 12:24 PM   #140
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna View Post
Not true, Andy Ruiz Jr at a FAT 256 lbs throws faster combinations than most light heavies.
At 200 lbs Ali was like a middleweight
Roy Jones Jr is faster than all except maybe 2 or 3 or so boxers ever even at smw.
Wlad is faster than most 200 lbs+ guys.

Louis was slower than the bigger Ali especially his Louis his feet were slower.

Usain Bolt is 210 lbs for gods sake.
Besides Usain Bolt only one other man who was in the top 10 in the olympics was above 200 lbs.
(Second fastest ever 200/100 meter man is Yohan Blake at 166 pounds)
There is little/no colleration between speed and size as far as I can see in the top 10 olympics sprinting 2012.

Heavy men CAN be as fast as smaller men.

And when a big man is as fast as the smaller man, the smaller man has a big problem.
Exactly.

If anything can be called a general trend in sports it's that bigger men tire faster than smaller men. They certainly don't have to be slower.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 12:42 PM   #141
dyna
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,363
vCash: 1551
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
Exactly.

If anything can be called a general trend in sports it's that bigger men tire faster than smaller men. They certainly don't have to be slower.
Yea, you can see the more meters a sprint is the lighter the runners tend to go.
Especially ultra marathon men/women are very light.

And I don't know why I did it but I'm bored so I'm proving my point in my previous post for the second time.

It's also the primary reason why heavyweights tend to have higher KO ratios than the lighter weights I bet.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

At a 40 or 20 meter dash this guy can beat olympic sprinters.

It takes Bolt probably around 50-70 meters to reach his full speed, olympics weightlifters have a higher HP/ton ratio and are infact superior in sprinting provided the distance is smaller.

Olympic weightlifters also vertical jump the heighest.
And contrary to what you might think, normal jumpers aren't great vertical jumpers.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

BORKED

Shane Hamman, 2000 Olympic Team Member and current National Super heavyweight Champion, another big man weighing in @ 163 kg (358 lbs) but only at a height of 5'9" tall, can jump onto boxes @ a height over 42" high. Of course Shane was also known for his squatting ability of over 1000 lbs. (Snatch 195 kg, Clean and Jerk 230 kg).” (can do a sanding back flip and dunk a basketball)

He can also hit a golf ball 350 yards far, and with golf you need explosive power (speed) so he's fast too at over 300 lbs.
dyna is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 12:57 PM   #142
Anubis
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 808
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Lennox's chin is 1 of the most proven in history against big punchers

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
This is actually why I favor Joe over Lennox. Even if Lennox did have an impervious chin, one simply didn't give away those kinds of shots to a combination puncher like the Bomber and win. You'd better run [like Walcott and Pastor], force him into retreat [say, like in Godoy I], or counter him brilliantly [like Schmeling did when Louis was ill prepared and caught unawares]. Lennox is going to get hit often, and discover that Joe was better at defending himself than commonly credited for.

Lennox's size alone would be no kind of refuge against Joe, and giving the Bomber that kind of punching room with that kind of height while slowly retreating in an upright amateur/European style posture would be suicidal.

Either get under him and crowd him with low hustling pressure [Frazier, Dempsey, Marciano], stick and move [Ali, Holmes], or confuse him with pattern interrupts and feinting [Walcott, Pastor I]. With Lennox though, Joe would know exactly what to do, how to do it, and have all the opportunities he needed to carry it out.

Nobody wiped out Joe early. At least twice in his career, he faced scheduled 20 rounders [Pastor II and Simon I]. Lennox never confronted a scheduled distance longer than 12 rounds. If either gasses, it will be the bigger man.

Joe had 11 first round knockouts, five in world title defenses. [Many of these are on film.] Lennox had five first round stoppages, and only Golota went in the opening three minutes of his world title opponents. Joe is not getting blown out in a single round here, not when Lennox failed twice to stop or even drop aging former CW Holyfield in two attempts. Max Baer was literally a killer with six ounce gloves, and Joe out slugged him in a torrid exchange to conclude the opening round. When did Lennox ever face a combination puncher like that?
Anubis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 03:09 PM   #143
RockysSplitNose
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Midlands in England
Posts: 3,940
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP_Mauler View Post
Ban him ffs
I second that pretty please with a cherry on top - we seriously don't need people like this on here - I thought ESB was getting bad already but this is ridiculous??
RockysSplitNose is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 03:49 PM   #144
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
I second that pretty please with a cherry on top - we seriously don't need people like this on here - I thought ESB was getting bad already but this is ridiculous??
Ban someone for stating their opinion in a non-abusive way? Yeah, that'd really improve the forum environment, wouldn't it?
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 04:05 PM   #145
RockysSplitNose
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Midlands in England
Posts: 3,940
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
Ban someone for stating their opinion in a non-abusive way? Yeah, that'd really improve the forum environment, wouldn't it?
It's not an opinion it's a completely and utter FALACY - like saying its not wet on a day when it's raining heavily?? Stop ***** footing around and trying to sound all good and non judgemental ok mate - let's maybe think about getting back to reality on this forum and maybe that would get it back to where it used to be cheers
RockysSplitNose is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 04:08 PM   #146
RockysSplitNose
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Midlands in England
Posts: 3,940
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
Ban someone for stating their opinion in a non-abusive way? Yeah, that'd really improve the forum environment, wouldn't it?
For the record: Do YOU think the Holy that faced Donald was as badly deteriorated as the Ali that faced Berbick??
RockysSplitNose is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 04:11 PM   #147
Jorodz
watching Gatti Ward 1...
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada, eh? Roy Jones, Jack Daniels and Grandma's Boy
Posts: 10,821
vCash: 1139
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
It's not an opinion it's a completely and utter FALACY - like saying its not wet on a day when it's raining heavily?? Stop ***** footing around and trying to sound all good and non judgemental ok mate - let's maybe think about getting back to reality on this forum and maybe that would get it back to where it used to be cheers
i disagree a lot with what the guy said to. but you can't say it was factually wrong. it's his interpretation of how fantasy fights would go. do i like it? no. but none of this stuff is fact, it's subjective interpretation. he has a right to disagree with every one of us, especially if he provides a reason

pacdbest was a ****ing moron when he was stating what pac would do in the next few years. it was fallacy and foolish. until every word he said was right
Jorodz is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 04:26 PM   #148
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
It's not an opinion it's a completely and utter FALACY - like saying its not wet on a day when it's raining heavily?? Stop ***** footing around and trying to sound all good and non judgemental ok mate - let's maybe think about getting back to reality on this forum and maybe that would get it back to where it used to be cheers
No, it's an opinion. Agree or disagree with it all you like, but calling for someone's ban is uncalled for and doesn't do the forum any favours.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 04:27 PM   #149
SP_Mauler
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,576
vCash: 75
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
i disagree a lot with what the guy said to. but you can't say it was factually wrong. it's his interpretation of how fantasy fights would go. do i like it? no. but none of this stuff is fact, it's subjective interpretation. he has a right to disagree with every one of us, especially if he provides a reason

pacdbest was a ****ing moron when he was stating what pac would do in the next few years. it was fallacy and foolish. until every word he said was right
Lewis vs Louis is going to come true in the next few years?

glover is sincere so let him be oh let him be..whispers of aa
SP_Mauler is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 04:29 PM   #150
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
For the record: Do YOU think the Holy that faced Donald was as badly deteriorated as the Ali that faced Berbick??
No, and I think Donald was a better fighter than many gave him credit for.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013