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Old 05-25-2013, 10:56 PM   #226
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Mate, lol, it's an absolute joke if you think the Klitschkos and Lewis have good resumes. The era in which Lewis and the Klitschkos have reigned is without a doubt the weakest era in heavyweight history. If you think otherwise you are greatly mistaken, misinformed, or deluded. Seriously.....get real. lol
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:45 AM   #227
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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This is getting ugly...Be that as it may I'll risk getting lambasted and throw my opinion in this debate. Assuming both fighters are at thier respective best, I'll take Joe Louis...probably by KO or TKO. Would I be shocked if Lewis won? No. He was a good fighter,big with a punch and good boxing skills. But I think Louis shades him in a few departments. One being handspeed. When Joe gets close to Lennox, who presents a big target, Louis will whip in a combination punctuated with a whiplash of a right. That alone will put Lennox on the defensive and convince him to stay on the outside...and that will seal his fate. Plus lewis would have to deal with a ramrod jab and like a lot of tall fighters who like to jab, this will throw him off his rythym and set him up for more deadly combinations. As far as the size factor goes, watch the Louis/Carnera fight. Louis spun the 260lb Carnera around in the clinches and Carnera was a mountain of muscle if nothing else. I think when we talk about "modern" training methods and the size of todays athletes, it is more relevant to other sports. Like one trainer once said.."You can't compare fighting to other sports" and I have to agree. I've read posts in the past that claim Ali would be too small to handle todays dreadnaughts....please! Now I'm not puttin down Lewis...like I said he was a good fighter and a big s.o.b. as well. But I think Joe Louis could deal with it. Big fighters were Louis' meat. Little speedy guys were tougher. Ok I've stated my case...Now I'll hide!
Problem is that Joe Louis would have trouble "getting close" to Lennox Lewis. LL was a master of distance and used his height and reach about as well as anyone did. Joe can try to move inside but he would have to get through a bad neighborhood on the way in.

Lennox Lewis had a good jab and that dynamite righthand himself. Joe Louis would have to be very careful and I could see his punch output dropping lower than usual. Lennox wasn't just "big" he was big, skilled and smart. That's a tough combination and world`s above the big guys that Joe Louis faced.

Its possible that Joe Louis could catch Lennox with something and end the fight but the most likely scenario is that Lennox gets him on the way in. Lennox can stay out of range while Joe will always be in Lewis`s range. Not a good formula for success.

Joe Louis was a greater fighter and ahead of his time but if he stepped into Lennox Lewis`s time he would regret it.
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Old 05-28-2013, 10:27 AM   #228
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Louis vs Lewis competition match-up:

1. Marciano over Tyson
2. Charles over Holyfield
3. Walcott over Klitshchko
4. Schmeling over Tua
5. Sharkey over Rudduck
6. Baer over Mercer
7. Galento over Rahman
8. Braddock over McCall

To me it is a clean sweep in the case of head to head. Louis' opponents were greater than every other heavywieght except Muhammad Ali. I do admit that a few of them are debatable.

Joe Louis was the 17th Heavyweight champion in history.

None of this IBF, WBA, WBO etc crap. One title one champion. Out of those 16 before him, he KO'ed 5 of them. Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, and Braddock. Then he ruled the division for half of a generation KO'ing 23 out of 25 challengers. The KO'ed Walcott who would give Lennox serious, serious problems, and fought Charles and Maricano waaaaay past his prime and gave a good account of himself. Louis at least five fighters that weighted over 220 pounds. All by early KO.

I think it is pretty clear that Joe Louis should be favored in just about every heavyweight head to head match up.

Last edited by JLP 6; 05-28-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 05-28-2013, 10:59 AM   #229
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by glover View Post
WABCBoxer; Yes, I forgot, Lewis fought bums mainly. Tyson is a bum. Holy is a bum. Mercer, Morrison, Tua, Briggs, Golotta, Bowe, Rahman, McCall, Botha, Klitschko, Akinwande, Ruddock all bums.
I wonder if you actualy know what the word bum means, or if you even think before you write this piffle.

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All these guys have won atleast 3/4 of their fights, some close to all of them.

All of these guys are natural heavies and never boxed below HW.

This was the first REAL HW era.
So this was the only real heavyweight era, but all the top fighters were bums?

That makes sense.

Quote:
This was an era where MOST of the opponents were champions or former champions. Almost no tomato cans to speak of.
The terms champion, contender, and bum are only relative to other fighters of the era.

Somebody is only a bum or a tomato can if they are getting paid to turn up and loose to other fighters of the era.

If somebody is one ot the main players of the era, then by definition they are a contender.

By definiton ever era has its stronger and weaker fighters.

Quote:
The 70's and 80's were a mix of cruiser and real HW and were demonstratably weaker with a few exceptions like Mike Tyson and George Foreman. And the eras were riddled with tomato cans!
They were not demonstrably weaker than the fighters from another era.

We cant predict who will win a fight between two fighters from the same era, so how can we claim to predict who would win a fight between two fighters from different eras?

One era being stronger than another is the most speculative argument in fantasy fights.

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The previous eras to that were a mix of light heavy, cruiser and real HW and were even weaker again. This time there were NO exceptions. None of the fighters prior to the 70's stood any chance of surviving in the modern HW division of Lewis' time or the Klitschko's. And the eras were made up almost exclusively of tomato cans!
There are cruiserweights and light heavyweigths breaking the rankings in every heavyweight era.

Michael Moore became the lineal heavyweight champion in the 1990s.

Chris Byrd became the number 1 contender on the 2000s.

These guys were former and future light heavyweights.

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They wouldn't even be able to be professional boxers and they wouldn't want to be.
Is there anything else that you think they would do better at?
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:56 PM   #230
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

Anyone who really thinks that Lewis and Klitschko are the two greatest HWs of all time, h2h or otherwise, cannot be taken seriously. It's as simple as that.
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:55 PM   #231
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

There are some real Louis nuthuggers in this thread. Good grief.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:00 PM   #232
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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There are some real Louis nuthuggers in this thread. Good grief.
Saying that somebody is a Louis nuthugger is a bit like saying that overvalue winning.

Louis is rated highly because there isn't actualy much more that he could have proven.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:18 PM   #233
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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Saying that somebody is a Louis nuthugger is a bit like saying that overvalue winning.

Louis is rated highly because there isn't actualy much more that he could have proven.
In his own era, I agree.

But there's some grade A nonsense I'm reading here about his chances to beat a fighter like Lennox, when he never had to tackle anyone remotely like him in his own timeframe, nor the likes of many of his opponents.

The H2H post comparing both men's resumes and giving Louis's opponents a clean sweep was particularly egregious.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:28 PM   #234
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
In his own era, I agree.
I think that people argue too much based on the relative strength of eras.

If you put the greatest fighter that ever lived in the weakest era, and removed the three best fighters, you would still find somebody who could give him problems.

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But there's some grade A nonsense I'm reading here about his chances to beat a fighter like Lennox, when he never had to tackle anyone remotely like him in his own timeframe, nor the likes of many of his opponents.
That cuts both ways.

Lewis never fought anybody remotely like Louis, or indeed like Schmeling, or Rammage, or Godoy, or Walcott.

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The H2H post comparing both men's resumes and giving Louis's opponents a clean sweep was particularly egregious.
I did not agree with its conclusions, but I don't think you will like mine much either.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:34 PM   #235
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by WABCBoxer View Post
Anyone who really thinks that Lewis and Klitschko are the two greatest HWs of all time, h2h or otherwise, cannot be taken seriously. It's as simple as that.
Foreman and Ali both called Lennox the greatest heavyweight of all time. Foreman numerous times

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Originally Posted by WABCBoxer View Post
Mate, lol, it's an absolute joke if you think the Klitschkos and Lewis have good resumes. The era in which Lewis and the Klitschkos have reigned is without a doubt the weakest era in heavyweight history. If you think otherwise you are greatly mistaken, misinformed, or deluded. Seriously.....get real. lol
The 90s is generally considered 1 of the best eras, Lennox's opponents are easily a couple of echelons above Louis's opponents
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:53 PM   #236
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Foreman and Ali both called Lennox the greatest heavyweight of all time. Foreman numerous times
When????????????????????

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The 90s is generally considered 1 of the best eras, Lennox's opponents are easily a couple of echelons above Louis's opponents
I am going to play devils advocate and point out that it was regarded as a week era at the time!
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:53 PM   #237
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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I think that people argue too much based on the relative strength of eras.

If you put the greatest fighter that ever lived in the weakest era, and removed the three best fighters, you would still find somebody who could give him problems.
Well Wlad's fighting in a pretty weak era right now. Take away his three biggest threats (Povetkin, Haye and Pulev) and who's left that could remotely give him a competitive fight?

I think your statement holds true only for fighters who fight to their opponents' level, or cut corners in training, underestimate the threat level of a particular pop etc. A truly consistent top level pro should be able to do the business each and every time. The worse his opposition, the better he performs.

Lewis was guilty of the above sins, but he also had a ton of standout performances against some absolute beasts. Even taking into account the size discrepancy, he fought in an era that was considerably more dangerous than the one Louis fought in.

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
That cuts both ways.

Lewis never fought anybody remotely like Louis, or indeed like Schmeling, or Rammage, or Godoy, or Walcott.
Roy Jones never fought anyone like Marquez, Morales or MAB, but I think we can safely say he beats all of them.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:55 PM   #238
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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I am going to play devils advocate and point out that it was regarded as a week era at the time!
Every era is considered weaker than the one that went before. It's human nature, not to be able to appreciate what's right in front of your nose. With hindsight, the 90s was obviously a tremendously deep era.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:30 PM   #239
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
Well Wlad's fighting in a pretty weak era right now. Take away his three biggest threats (Povetkin, Haye and Pulev) and who's left that could remotely give him a competitive fight?
Purity, Sanders, Brewster.

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I think your statement holds true only for fighters who fight to their opponents' level, or cut corners in training, underestimate the threat level of a particular pop etc. A truly consistent top level pro should be able to do the business each and every time. The worse his opposition, the better he performs.
Simply dosn't happen.

That is why you are able to find amunition to slig at Louis, and I can return in kind for Lewis.

Quote:
Lewis was guilty of the above sins, but he also had a ton of standout performances against some absolute beasts. Even taking into account the size discrepancy, he fought in an era that was considerably more dangerous than the one Louis fought in.
Highly debatable.

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Roy Jones never fought anyone like Marquez, Morales or MAB, but I think we can safely say he beats all of them.
Lets look at this a bit further.

You will probably agree that one of the weaknesses of Lewis's resume, is that it lacked slicksters.

Slicksters who could punch like Schamleing and Walcott were non existent in his era.

You might argue that Lewis couls have matched up well against this type of fighter, but I think the same is true of Louis with guys like Morrison, Akiniwande, Rahman, and Mercer.

The only repeat only opponent on Lewis's resume who would have made a major difference to Louis's era is Holyfield.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:31 PM   #240
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
Every era is considered weaker than the one that went before. It's human nature, not to be able to appreciate what's right in front of your nose. With hindsight, the 90s was obviously a tremendously deep era.
Not every era.

More crucialy, not every champion.

Lewis was not as well regarded in his era as many top 10 heavyweights.
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