John Murray vs Kevin Mitchell

[avidlemon]

[quote=robpalmer135;6806568]Murray has shown me nothing to make me think he will be world class.

I dont think he could fight at the pace Mitchell sets.
I dont think he could take Mitchells big punches for 12 rounds.
I dont think he could hurt Mitchell.
Mitchell could outbox and outbrawl him.[/quote]

I think this is exactly what John Murray could do. John Murray is relentless, and he does hurt opponents.
Mitchell might outbox him, but out brawl, not so sure

[mugen82]

Originally Posted by avidlemon

i am not talking about getting outboxed etc, just chin for chin. I don't see how Murray has a worse chin than kats, when Murray has never been close to being stopped.
I appreciate there is a difference in the level of opposition.

Yea at the moment its like comparing the chins of Terry Norris and Tommy Hearns to that of Errol Christie and Paul 'scrap Iron' Ryan. They're in totally different classes and getting tested to different degrees.

The only similarity between them is they're young and english, oh and they both love taking a year off between fights. Although Mitchell has been on a bit of a run lately.

[avidlemon]

Originally Posted by mugen82

Yea at the moment its like comparing the chins of Terry Norris and Tommy Hearns to that of Errol Christie and Paul 'scrap Iron' Ryan. They're in totally different classes and getting tested to different degrees.

The only similarity between them is they're young and english, oh and they both love taking a year off between fights. Although Mitchell has been on a bit of a run lately.

Murray does seem to be gaining momentum also, but certainly mitchell is on the up.
A match up would certainly answer some outstanding questions

[skel1983]

Murray wins for me.

[SnoopyboyM]

I think Mitchell is a level above Murray

[TFFP]

Mitchell for me; clearly has more strings to his bow. The key difference is Kevin moves really well, he has a degree of cuteness to his boxing. You could see against Prescott the times he pulled back to avoid a punch and threw a right hand counter over the top. That's not the sort of thing an unskilled fighter can do, and its not something that Murray is capable of either.

Murray tends to have one pace, maybe two. It's walk, walk, walk, throw to the body or look for a right hand. Mitchell has the fight on his terms, he doesn't have to be there for Murray, he has a better jab and handspeed and movement that he can use to pick him off. But ultimately he will have to stand his ground eventually and he's quite capable of that too, he has real grit. You quite often find the more skilled fighter with better technique can surprisingly get the better of a brawler in exchanges.

[avidlemon]

Originally Posted by TFFP

Mitchell for me; clearly has more strings to his bow. The key difference is Kevin moves really well, he has a degree of cuteness to his boxing. You could see against Prescott the times he pulled back to avoid a punch and threw a right hand counter over the top. That's not the sort of thing an unskilled fighter can do, and its not something that Murray is capable of either.

Murray tends to have one pace, maybe two. It's walk, walk, walk, throw to the body or look for a right hand. Mitchell has the fight on his terms, he doesn't have to be there for Murray, he has a better jab and handspeed and movement that he can use to pick him off. But ultimately he will have to stand his ground eventually and he's quite capable of that too, he has real grit. You quite often find the more skilled fighter with better technique can surprisingly get the better of a brawler in exchanges.

there is a lot of substance to this argument i guess. I just think the same as has been said of mitchell, murray has a lot more to show.
Mitchell did show grit against johannessen, skill and ability to stick to a game plan against prescott, so he has shown more in terms of adaptability than murray has at this stage.
I think murray has the mentality to wear his opponents down, and has had a lot of his fights his own way so far.
We will learn more about him when he comes up against someone who can put him onto the back foot. I would say my only resevation with KM right now is his move up in weight. Kats is the real acid test as to whether he can cope

[TFFP]

Well lets be honest if he beats Katsidis its going to pretty much guarantee Murray is no match for him. As far as I can see Katsidis is a more experienced, relentless, harder punching version of Murray. Either way it would give a lot of clues, even if Mitchell is very competitive and gets worn down late or loses close on points I'd say he'd have a good shot against Murray.

Murray can wear a guy down, and I do like him as a fighter, but the problem is going to be when he fights a skilled fighter that can box and move BUT also hit him with hard punches back. Because you don't see Murray set up his attacks, he doesn't jab often and he doesn't close the ring off like a Hatton. He just walks and waits until he's in punching range. McAllister gave him some trouble but just didn't have the power to compete and Murray walked through him. Murray hasn't faced any punchers yet.

[avidlemon]

Originally Posted by TFFP

Well lets be honest if he beats Katsidis its going to pretty much guarantee Murray is no match for him. As far as I can see Katsidis is a more experienced, relentless, harder punching version of Murray. Either way it would give a lot of clues, even if Mitchell is very competitive and gets worn down late or loses close on points I'd say he'd have a good shot against Murray.

Murray can wear a guy down, and I do like him as a fighter, but the problem is going to be when he fights a skilled fighter that can box and move BUT also hit him with hard punches back. Because you don't see Murray set up his attacks, he doesn't jab often and he doesn't close the ring off like a Hatton. He just walks and waits until he's in punching range. McAllister gave him some trouble but just didn't have the power to compete and Murray walked through him. Murray hasn't faced any punchers yet.

I agree. We essentially know **** all about Murray, and how he reacts when presnted with an opponent HE has to figure out, rather than someone else having to figure him out, and negate what he brings.
Whereas Kats is going to have to think long and hard about how to beat mitchel. Murray, as you say would struggle against a guy who has good footwork, can stay out of range, and had a decent jab. However, it is hard to say fo sho' until murray does fight someone euro/fring world level, which hopefully will give us our answers.

[gooners!!]

Originally Posted by JFT96

This would be a great fight if it were to come off, I was just wondering what youse thought about who'd come out on top. I feel Murray has been unlucky in that Mitchell's jumped ahead of him considering he's beat every good British lightweight out there.
Mitchell will probably box on the back foot v Katsidis because toe to toe he would probably lose even though it would be great to watch. But against Murray I reckon he'd stay in the centre of the ring because even if John is good at wearing people down, he has a weaker chin than Katsidis. Hopefully, Mitchell will win on saturday and then we can see this all british battle

Mitchell is above him because Murray is wasting his time fighting domestic fighters, whilst Mitchell is coming of a win over a guy that knocked a current world champ in 60 seconds.

Murray wants respect he will fight for it, that means fighting world ranked fighters, not domestic fighters.