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Old 10-18-2007, 06:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius



Good call. What are your favorite fights of his?
I love his dismantling of the ever dangerous Marvin Johnson. His body work was superb and his power plenty eveident. He alsi impressed me vs Martin who had been fighting well prior, may have stopped him sooner but overall some superb moments. This also showed Eddie's primary weakness, he was simply too laid back much of the time. With a bit more urgency allied to his power, defense and chin he would have been up there with almost anyone ever.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

My favorite fight of Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and his best, in my opinion, was his title winning fight against Marvin Johnson. He won by tko in 10 I believe, and for some reason, I was fascinated by his style in this fight. Eddie approached this fight like an artist almost, like he was putting on a display of equal skill and power against Johnson. He skillfully avoided Johnson's best shots, while being especially dangerous and effective with a left hook counter to the body. In the 3rd, a left to the body hurt Marvin and a follow up right scored a kd for Eddie. Surprisingly, it was the only knockdown of the fight, but the beating Eddie laid on Johnson was slow and steady. It seemed that Eddie was pulling his shots a little bit to gain more accuracy, and he boxed and punished Johnson masterfully. He looked really great that night, and who knows, maybe if Eddie was a little more aggressive, and let his hands go more during his career, maybe he would have been an all time great, and you would n't have had Spinks beat him.
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Old 10-19-2007, 08:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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My favorite fight of Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and his best, in my opinion, was his title winning fight against Marvin Johnson. He won by tko in 10 I believe, and for some reason, I was fascinated by his style in this fight. Eddie approached this fight like an artist almost, like he was putting on a display of equal skill and power against Johnson. He skillfully avoided Johnson's best shots, while being especially dangerous and effective with a left hook counter to the body. In the 3rd, a left to the body hurt Marvin and a follow up right scored a kd for Eddie. Surprisingly, it was the only knockdown of the fight, but the beating Eddie laid on Johnson was slow and steady. It seemed that Eddie was pulling his shots a little bit to gain more accuracy, and he boxed and punished Johnson masterfully. He looked really great that night, and who knows, maybe if Eddie was a little more aggressive, and let his hands go more during his career, maybe he would have been an all time great, and you would n't have had Spinks beat him.
I've talked about this before but I truely believe a motivated, in shape, more aggressive Eddie without some head/attitude issues and not having to fight his oft weight problems late in his career, would have truely been a top 10 ATG (and I'm talking fly thru heavy) The old historian pro John Garfield talked about them marveling about the young welter amateur Gregory in New York in the late 60's early 70's taking everyone apart with ease, Antefermo and others. After the clinic he put on Marvin he inexplicably balloons up to 200+ lbs. and fights Snipes??? Then has to go to the steam room at the last minute to make weight for his Spinks defense. Despite entering the ring looking like a shriveled pear, he dominated the first half of the Spinks fight before running out of steam and even after Spinks dropped him with that Sunday sledgehammer right hand late in the fight, Eddie rose and fought on. I truely believe he was impossible to knockout. A rematch was in the offing but I'm not sure what sent that down the tubes.
THE complete fighter in my book: great defense, great right, great left, great chin what more could you ask for. If he'd only kept his head on straight, been a little more aggressive, and watched all that weight fluctuation, he may have been able to ice virtually any Lt. Hvy in history save perhaps that short list of forties and fifties monsters, Ezz, etc...I still think Spinks would have been unable to defeat Eddie if he was ready to go. (Surprisingly the Assoc. Press scored Eddie-Spinks a 146-146 draw!) A focused prime Eddie-Bob Foster would have been a doozy!
IMHO when potential ATG's are mentioned Gregory always seems to fly under the radar of discussion but, to be fair, he brought a lot of that on himself.
Young fighters should look at some of his best efforts as an example of a prototype total boxing execution technician...
My $0.02
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Old 10-19-2007, 08:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Mike Spinks often fought defensively with Herky-Jerk Movement.......Until he was ready to unleash, then a marvelous predatory coheision kicked in
that overhand right that hit cooney was ing

Last edited by SuzieQ49; 08-08-2006 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:24 AM   #20
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My favorite fight by Eddie Mustafa Muhammad was one of his lesser known performances, against Lotte Mwale. Eddie squandered away some rounds against Marvin Johnson, and I felt he should have taken Johnson out immediately after flooring him. The most motivated and inspired showing I watched him produce was when he took Mwale apart. Fired up at the possibility of a rematch with Spinks, he made the LHW limit with ease, and went right after Mwale with his easy picking jab.

I don't remember Eddie as much of a combination puncher, although he did slam away with heavy multiple bodyshots the few times he caught Snipes on the ropes. (Although his effort against Mr. Snipes was lackluster, his rare body attack on Renaldo was a beautiful demonstration of his refined balance and way of generating tremendous leverage from the center of his body.)

Mwale had good speed, and flashed good looking combinations at Eddie, but Mustafa Muhammad slipped his punches effortlessly, never blinking as he did so. It would be superb for somebody who has this bout to post it on-line for the benefit of younger boxers and fight fans.

After disposing of Mwale, he had a title rematch set up with Spinks, but once again failed to make weight. (Aaaaagggghhhhh!) Then, their scheduled match was briefly changed to a nontitle ten rounder. However, Mike and Butch Lewis then decided "not to dignify Eddie" for his failure and refusal to make the LHW limit, and withdrew from the rematch. A raucus press conference ensued, where Butch Lewis shed tears of frustration over the situation, while Mike looked downcast and demoralized.

Following a bit of a fracas, Dwight Qawi stole the circus. He brought a long-eared animal headband to the party, and after things calmed down, he went to the microphones and announced, "These are for Michael, because he ran like a rabbit when we fought, and for Butch, because he's an ass." (I forget what disparaging remarks Ike made about Eddie, but a Qawi/Mustafa Muhammad matchup would have been an intriguing display.)

Speaking of Mike Spinks, he had his back to the ropes when he unleashed the shotgun blast right uppercut which nearly sent Jerry Celestine's head flying into orbit, and he also had his back to the ropes when his left hook knocked Marvin Johnson out cold for several minutes. (He was still unconscious while the PA system tastelessy played Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust." Crass, crass, crass!)

Roberto Elizondo attacked Alexis Arguello as aggressively as any of Alex's opponents ever did (including Ganigan and Pryor). Arguello proved how deadly he was countering off the ropes as he fractured Elizondo's jaw with his lethally uncanny precision placement. This ability was something he rarely had the opportunity to show, but Elizondo obliged him, giving Arguello the chance to prove he was no Benitez when it came to defensive power punching.

Edwin Rosario saved his title against Howard Davis Jr. with a defensive power punch in the final seconds. He was on the ropes, slipping Howard's lightning fast combinations, and uncorked a countershot which decked his challenger. El Chapo was also against the ropes when he nearly dislocated Edwin Viruet's jaw with a fight ending blow.
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:25 AM   #21
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

Ross Purity
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Old 10-19-2007, 08:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by jowcol
I've talked about this before but I truely believe a motivated, in shape, more aggressive Eddie without some head/attitude issues and not having to fight his oft weight problems late in his career, would have truely been a top 10 ATG (and I'm talking fly thru heavy) The old historian pro John Garfield talked about them marveling about the young welter amateur Gregory in New York in the late 60's early 70's taking everyone apart with ease, Antefermo and others. After the clinic he put on Marvin he inexplicably balloons up to 200+ lbs. and fights Snipes??? Then has to go to the steam room at the last minute to make weight for his Spinks defense. Despite entering the ring looking like a shriveled pear, he dominated the first half of the Spinks fight before running out of steam and even after Spinks dropped him with that Sunday sledgehammer right hand late in the fight, Eddie rose and fought on. I truely believe he was impossible to knockout. A rematch was in the offing but I'm not sure what sent that down the tubes.
THE complete fighter in my book: great defense, great right, great left, great chin what more could you ask for. If he'd only kept his head on straight, been a little more aggressive, and watched all that weight fluctuation, he may have been able to ice virtually any Lt. Hvy in history save perhaps that short list of forties and fifties monsters, Ezz, etc...I still think Spinks would have been unable to defeat Eddie if he was ready to go. (Surprisingly the Assoc. Press scored Eddie-Spinks a 146-146 draw!) A focused prime Eddie-Bob Foster would have been a doozy!
IMHO when potential ATG's are mentioned Gregory always seems to fly under the radar of discussion but, to be fair, he brought a lot of that on himself.
Young fighters should look at some of his best efforts as an example of a prototype total boxing execution technician...
My $0.02
Nice posts guys. As for the rematch, Eddie came in a few pounds overweight and claimed the scales were rigged. He refused to sweat off the weight after memories of the first fight. Spinks agreed to a 10 round non title affair, but then backed out, which was certainly in his rights. I was actually tipping a Mustafa win. It would have been interesting.
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Old 10-19-2007, 08:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
My favorite fight by Eddie Mustafa Muhammad was one of his lesser known performances, against Lotte Mwale. Eddie squandered away some rounds against Marvin Johnson, and I felt he should have taken Johnson out immediately after flooring him. The most motivated and inspired showing I watched him produce was when he took Mwale apart. Fired up at the possibility of a rematch with Spinks, he made the LHW limit with ease, and went right after Mwale with his easy picking jab.

I don't remember Eddie as much of a combination puncher, although he did slam away with heavy multiple bodyshots the few times he caught Snipes on the ropes. (Although his effort against Mr. Snipes was lackluster, his rare body attack on Renaldo was a beautiful demonstration of his refined balance and way of generating tremendous leverage from the center of his body.)

Mwale had good speed, and flashed good looking combinations at Eddie, but Mustafa Muhammad slipped his punches effortlessly, never blinking as he did so. It would be superb for somebody who has this bout to post it on-line for the benefit of younger boxers and fight fans.

After disposing of Mwale, he had a title rematch set up with Spinks, but once again failed to make weight. (Aaaaagggghhhhh!) Then, their scheduled match was briefly changed to a nontitle ten rounder. However, Mike and Butch Lewis then decided "not to dignify Eddie" for his failure and refusal to make the LHW limit, and withdrew from the rematch. A raucus press conference ensued, where Butch Lewis shed tears of frustration over the situation, while Mike looked downcast and demoralized.

Following a bit of a fracas, Dwight Qawi stole the circus. He brought a long-eared animal headband to the party, and after things calmed down, he went to the microphones and announced, "These are for Michael, because he ran like a rabbit when we fought, and for Butch, because he's an ass." (I forget what disparaging remarks Ike made about Eddie, but a Qawi/Mustafa Muhammad matchup would have been an intriguing display.)

Speaking of Mike Spinks, he had his back to the ropes when he unleashed the shotgun blast right uppercut which nearly sent Jerry Celestine's head flying into orbit, and he also had his back to the ropes when his left hook knocked Marvin Johnson out cold for several minutes. (He was still unconscious while the PA system tastelessy played Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust." Crass, crass, crass!)

Roberto Elizondo attacked Alexis Arguello as aggressively as any of Alex's opponents ever did (including Ganigan and Pryor). Arguello proved how deadly he was countering off the ropes as he fractured Elizondo's jaw with his lethally uncanny precision placement. This ability was something he rarely had the opportunity to show, but Elizondo obliged him, giving Arguello the chance to prove he was no Benitez when it came to defensive power punching.

Edwin Rosario saved his title against Howard Davis Jr. with a defensive power punch in the final seconds. He was on the ropes, slipping Howard's lightning fast combinations, and uncorked a countershot which decked his challenger. El Chapo was also against the ropes when he nearly dislocated Edwin Viruet's jaw with a fight ending blow.
Great post. Don't forget the bikers or whatever to at the press conference, didn't they turn up with Qawi? Qawi and EMM had words there too.
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Great post. Don't forget the bikers or whatever to at the press conference, didn't they turn up with Qawi? Qawi and EMM had words there too.
Ahhhh yes JT, thank you, that's RIGHT! How could I omit that retinue of Ike's? That sideshow was more entertaining than either of the bouts between the three of them.
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:26 PM   #25
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

Lennox Lewis
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Old 10-20-2007, 10:47 PM   #26
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
Ahhhh yes JT, thank you, that's RIGHT! How could I omit that retinue of Ike's? That sideshow was more entertaining than either of the bouts between the three of them.
How do you think the rematch would have gone all things being equal?
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
If you look at defensive fighters, you will see that often they don't have that much power. Usually it's a stylistic thing: defensive fighters don't often plant their feet and fire a shot. Guys like Pep, Whitaker, Ali, Byrd, Young, Mayweather, Tunney, etc are all great at defense but lack a punch.

So which fighters had a very good defense but could also punch? I'm talking about a defensively, non-agressive styled boxer, by the way. So while Tyson had an excellent defense in his prime, he doesn't qualify because he fights like a puncher.

Anyway, my first pick would be Jersey Joe Walcott. He was not agressive and often on the backfoot, but his right hand carried some serious power. He put Louis on his ass multiple times, knocked Marciano down (the only time he seemed to be a bit hurt, contrary to Moore's flash knockdown) and of course he has a beautiful one-punch KO over Ezzard Charles.
Any others?
Benny Leonard had a potent right hand.Jack Johnson could stop a man with his right uppercut.
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Old 10-21-2007, 01:01 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

Some great reads here, particularly about Muhammad's.
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:32 AM   #29
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

Yeah...Great boxing class this fellas.I did'nt have the skinny on Eddie.Always just assumed The Jinx was ducking the remetch.What a fight the re would have been.

Great thread.
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:37 AM   #30
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Benny Leonard had a potent right hand.Jack Johnson could stop a man with his right uppercut.
Jack Johnson is a pick so obvious that he gets totally overlooked. He's exactly what fits the bill: skilled defensively and defensively orientated, but capable of banging hard when he needed to.

I'd also add Herbie Hide, who wasn't great defensively, but fought on the back foot in his prime yet was one of the hardest hitters of his day.
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