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Old 01-08-2010, 06:30 PM   #16
mcvey
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Schmeling was indeed lined up to fight Braddock, but Louis was given the shot on the basis of Louis's promotor promising Braddock 10% of Louis's future earnings should he win the belt.

It also makes you wonder if it was within Braddock's best interest to try and retain the belt.
Braddock got 10% of Jacobs future promotions of the heavyweight title ,not 10% of Louis's earnings.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Sounds like he had some mob connections.

At that time Jim Norris and most of the other groups had political connections and the Mob was a large part of boxing. It was not like they would make you throw a fight( that happened but was not the rule) but in N.Y. there was the Jewish and Italians that controlled a lot in NY. Louis had connections and Ali did also, the muslims did not have the political strength but the Dundees did and it helped Ali. Walcott finally got a title shot after pairing up with Felix Boncochio but it did not get him the decision vs Louis. The Irish also was paired up with the Mob because the mob favorite color is Green and they are colorblind to skin, just talent. Another thing The Americans were in a war and Joe Louis got a lot of press as a hero and with his talent he could secure the title for America. It was different times, everyone knew who the Heavyweight Champ of the World was. Even though it was not true they viewed Schmeling as Hitlers Natzi
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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No. Louis had two powerful promoters with a lot of money and connections with Madison Square Garden. Louis management made Braddock a huge purse offer to fight Louis, plus a percentage of the profits in all of Louis' future fights.

If Louis did not have such a backing, he would not have received a title shot so soon.
Braddock got nothing from Louis 's end, he got a 10% of Jacobs promotions of the Heavy title for 10 years.
Jimmy Johnston was the promoter for MSG.
LOUIS through Roxborough and Black had NO connections with him at all.

Through Roxborough,they aligned themselves with Jacobs, who was the head of the20th Century Sporting Club,backed by
William Randolph Hearst,
Edward Frayne,sports editor of America,Bill Farnsworth,sports editor of the Journal,and Damon Runyon.
Jacobs wanted control of MSG ,and saw Louis as his key.
It was a power play
Bob Pastor for example , a Johnston fighter was instructed to make Louis look bad ,never mind about winning,he ran for the 10rd distance ,[Bob's bicycle act], and Louis couldn't catch him.

Louis only fought twice in MSG before becoming Champ,in 1935 ,against Uzcudun ,and 37 against Pastor who was aligned to Johnston, MSG's promoter.

Louis won the title from Braddock in Comiskey Park Chicago, he didn't defend in the Garden until 1938, against Natie Mann.
MSG actually wanted Braddock to defend again Schmeling ,not Louis.

Louis was the uncrowned king, it was palpably obvious he was the standout heavyweight, and Joe Gould Braddock's manager knew it, accordingly he wanted a defence against Louis ,only because he , and Braddock would be on 10% of Jacobs of the title for the next 10 years.

A federal judge ruled that MSG could not force Braddock to defend against Schmeling ,and the way was clear for a Braddock Louis fight.


Louis didnt get his chance at the title early ,he more than earned it.
Gould went for Louis because he and Braddock were on what amounted to an annuity for the next 10 years, not because they thought Braddock could beat Joe.
Louis 's management put up NOTHING for the fight with Braddock, Jacobs put up the dough.

Last edited by mcvey; 01-09-2010 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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At that time Jim Norris and most of the other groups had political connections and the Mob was a large part of boxing. It was not like they would make you throw a fight( that happened but was not the rule) but in N.Y. there was the Jewish and Italians that controlled a lot in NY. Louis had connections and Ali did also, the muslims did not have the political strength but the Dundees did and it helped Ali. Walcott finally got a title shot after pairing up with Felix Boncochio but it did not get him the decision vs Louis. The Irish also was paired up with the Mob because the mob favorite color is Green and they are colorblind to skin, just talent. Another thing Louis got a lot of press as a hero and with his talent he could secure the The Americans title for Americawere in a war and Joe . It was different times, everyone knew who the Heavyweight Champ of the World was. Even though it was not true they viewed Schmeling as Hitlers Natzi
Norris did not become a factor in Louis's boxing career until the tail end via the IBC,which was eventually disbanded by the courts for operating a monopoly.
Louis was champion for 5 years BEFORE he enlisted in the army ,which he did 3 days after koing Buddy Baer in 1 rd in 1942.
You are right about the mob's influence however.
When Owney Madden,Public Enemy Number 1 [and the real manager of Carnera] got out of Sing Sing in1923 the man waiting to give him a lift home was Joe Gould ,Braddock's manager.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Braddock got 10% of Jacobs future promotions of the heavyweight title ,not 10% of Louis's earnings.
Either way, it doesn't matter.... Crooked bidness is crooked bidness....... Mike Jacobs was a shyster of a manager...... M.J. saw fit to pay and square himself away with Uncle Sam, however, he left Joe Louis Blowing in the wind pretty hard with Sam...... Joe Louis being in debt to the Nation in 1949 for One Million clams is poor management by team Louis...... And Joe Louis being a good ol' country bumpkin from lower Alabama didn't have the sense to follow up on all that scandalosity by his manager Mike Jacobs.......


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Old 01-08-2010, 07:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Either way, it doesn't matter.... Crooked bidness is crooked bidness....... Mike Jacobs was a shyster of a manager...... M.J. saw fit to pay and square himself away with Uncle Sam, however, he left Joe Louis Blowing in the wind pretty hard with Sam...... Joe Louis being in debt to the Nation in 1949 for One Million clams is poor management by team Louis...... And Joe Louis being a good ol' country bumpkin from lower Alabama didn't have the sense to follow up on all that scandalosity by his manager Mike Jacobs.......


MR.BILL
Except Jacobs was never his manager.His managers were Roxborough and Black ,and later ,when Roxy went away for an enforced stay with the goverment, Marshall Miles .
When Jacobs died, Louis actually owed HIM money.
Given that , during the war, Louis TWICE defended the Heavyweight title for NOTHING, ,against Simon and Baer. The gate going to the Army and Navy relief funds, perhaps Uncle Sam could have been a little more forebearing about his IRS debts ,dont you think?
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:33 PM   #22
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Except Jacobs was never his manager.His managers were Roxborough and Black ,and later ,when Roxy went away for an enforced stay with the goverment, Marshall Miles .
When Jacobs died, Louis actually owed HIM money.
Given that Louis TWICE defended the Heavyweight title for NOTHING, during the war ,against Simon and Baer, perhaps Uncle Sam could have been a little more forebearing about his IRS debts ,dont you think?
Joe Louis was sliced in pieces..... He was a male whore to his handler's....... Who wasn't living off of Louis in the 1940s????? Plus, Louis had a failed marriage that took him to the cleaners pretty hard....... I thought Joe Louis looked sad in the middle 1950s as a wrestler weighing 250 pounds and balding for chump change..........


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Old 01-08-2010, 07:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Joe Louis was sliced in pieces..... He was a male whore to his handler's....... Who wasn't living off of Louis in the 1940s????? Plus, Louis had a failed marriage that took him to the cleaners pretty hard....... I thought Joe Louis looked sad in the middle 1950s as a wrestler weighing 250 pounds and balding for chump change..........


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Uncle Sam sure got a slice of him.
Only In America ,The Land Of The Free.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Uncle Sam sure got a slice of him.
Only In America ,The Land Of The Free.
Yeah, but I read somewhere that Louis was infact pardoned for his back taxes during the late 50s when Eisenhower was in his second term as Prez....... Many people think Kennedy and his admin. washed away Louis' debts, but that's not true...... Granted, either way, Louis was left broke, so he headed out to Vegas to work as a greeter foe Caesers Palace..... I believe Frank Sinatra secretly got Louis the gig there........ Louis got free room and buffet passes, and a certain amout of house chips to throw at the tables to attract gamblers....... Peace.......

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Old 01-08-2010, 09:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Uncle Sam sure got a slice of him.
Only In America ,The Land Of The Free.

Yea that was heartless of Uncle Sam and the IRS...Funny how later- on Rocky Marciano and Frank Sinatra used there influance to help there childhood hero and get him a respectable high paying job in Las Vegas, to their credit. Joe Louis was an American Hero and motorvated many during the war. Shame on the IRS
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Yea that was heartless of Uncle Sam and the IRS...Funny how later- on Rocky Marciano and Frank Sinatra used there influance to help there childhood hero and get him a respectable high paying job in Las Vegas, to their credit. Joe Louis was an American Hero and motorvated many during the war. Shame on the IRS
Well, that Ol' prick Uncle Sam hasn't changed...... He is still a ****er....... If you jackoff on your taxes, etc... He will come back to find and haunt you with penalties..... But notice that if Uncle Sam jacks you off for a while on payment he is exempt from paying you $$$ for penalties, etc...... You just get what you get......... ****in' bullshit....


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Old 01-08-2010, 11:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Braddock got 10% of Jacobs future promotions of the heavyweight title ,not 10% of Louis's earnings.
Mcvey, I'm disappointed...


I responded to this thread over two years ago, and you're just getting back to me now........
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:14 AM   #28
mcvey
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Mcvey, I'm disappointed...


I responded to this thread over two years ago, and you're just getting back to me now........
Your'e dissapointed?
I'm dissapointed, that a thread involving two fictional characters,is posted in the classic section,taking up valuable space ,and depriving posters of my erudite and informed opinions

I am further dissapointed that your fictional matchup ,attracted so many posters replies, but, I note that the majority of them appear to have surfaced from the lounge.
What next from you I wonder ?

Stagger Lee versus Big Bad Leroy Brown ?
The Lounge beckons you, Mr M.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:07 AM   #29
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

Yes he was lucky, because on the basis of Max Schmeling's ko of Louis..he, Max, should have gotten the shot at Braddock's crown. The dark clouds descending over the world regarding the evil Nazi regime was the reason to shaft the German out of his legitimate crack at the title.
Schmeling, in my opinion would have beaten Braddock, and Jim's people knew this, deep down.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:13 AM   #30
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Default Re: Was Joe Louis lucky to get his shot at the title so quick?

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Yea that was heartless of Uncle Sam and the IRS...Funny how later- on Rocky Marciano and Frank Sinatra used there influance to help there childhood hero and get him a respectable high paying job in Las Vegas, to their credit. Joe Louis was an American Hero and motorvated many during the war. Shame on the IRS
Yes, shame on the IRS...a dirty, dark and despicable chapter in the history of our country...as Joe Louis had so unselfishly and loyally given of his entire purse in a few of his defenses for the sake of his country..and provided such a boost for the morale of out cause with his statement that "we're on God's side"...disgusting and shameful was the crime committed against Joe Louis..enough to shame you as an American.
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