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Old 06-08-2010, 05:39 AM   #1
dftaylor
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Default Miguel Cotto: still counted out

So, Cotto moves up to 154, beats an undefeated titlist who was expected to give him all sorts of trouble (even though he was favourite to win), looks as good as he has done in recent years and what happens? People start picking the victory apart and saying that Cotto was flattered by Foreman's limitations.

Well, why the hell weren't people saying that before? Plenty of knowledgeable opinion-former's suggested Cotto was shop-worn and that Foreman's time was now. They praised his footwork, his hand-speed, his underrated power and, after the fight? All those things were gone it seems. Then they still say Cotto struggled.

I'm sad that so many people are saying: "He'll lose if he steps up again." Anyone agree?
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:14 AM   #2
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

Cotto definitely proved me wrong. I was convinced Foreman would UD him and props to you for calling the fight for Cotto. I havent watched the Foreman-Cotto fight yet, but based on what I have seen of Foreman beforehand, this is an excellent scalp for Cotto.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:21 AM   #3
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

People's perceptions of Cotto are probably my number one gripe on ESB at the moment. The guy is a great fighter on his day, yet people always focus on his flaws.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

He has a glaring flaw; pressure fighters.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

I think Cottos win has been well recieved. Most people now have him top 10 p4p again.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:39 AM   #6
ed7890
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

Well, we've seen him get battered twice now. Foremann isn't the strongest fighter at 154, you'd have to worry about Cotto taking another beating off one of the heavier hitters.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:41 AM   #7
dftaylor
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

That's the whole thing. Every fighter has flaws. Manny Pacquaio struggles with guys who can back him and time him. Floyd doesn't like southpaws or volume punchers. Mosley struggles with boxers.

It's the fact that, soon as Cotto put on a really good performance, where he kept disciplined, people want to discredit it. I can certainly understand someone saying Cotto still needs to prove his capabilities against someone better, but let's celebrate him for doing what most people didn't think he'd do: outbox Foreman and control him all night with his jab.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:53 AM   #8
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

Quote:
Well, we've seen him get battered twice now. Foremann isn't the strongest fighter at 154, you'd have to worry about Cotto taking another beating off one of the heavier hitters
What has that got to do with my point? Everyone gets battered by Manny right now. Stylistically, Margarito and Pacquaio are the exact types of fighter that Cotto would struggle with. One who's relentless in his pressure (1,000 punches a fight FFS) and can take almost all punishment thrown at him, and another who's so fast and busy (another guy that can throw 1,000 a fight) that few can keep up with him. And he had successes against both of them - it's not like he just rolled over.

So, two very unusual cases that he faced and lost to, along with a struggle against an awkward guy like Clottey, who he'd have beaten easily if he'd not been cut and had kept boxing smart rather than slugging.

Not sure that's cause to say he's faded particularly. He had a bad run, with some very impressive performances during that time - even in losing.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

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Originally Posted by dftaylor View Post
That's the whole thing. Every fighter has flaws. Manny Pacquaio struggles with guys who can back him and time him. Floyd doesn't like southpaws or volume punchers. Mosley struggles with boxers.

It's the fact that, soon as Cotto put on a really good performance, where he kept disciplined, people want to discredit it. I can certainly understand someone saying Cotto still needs to prove his capabilities against someone better, but let's celebrate him for doing what most people didn't think he'd do: outbox Foreman and control him all night with his jab.
How do you think Cotto woul do agaisnt other Light Middles?

Williams
Martinez
Angulo
Cintron
Dzinzurik
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:56 AM   #10
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

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Originally Posted by dftaylor View Post
People start picking the victory apart and saying that Cotto was flattered by Foreman's limitations.

Well, why the hell weren't people saying that before?
Some of us were
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Old 06-08-2010, 07:28 AM   #11
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

cotto made margarito look ****e for the first 6 rounds
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Old 06-08-2010, 07:30 AM   #12
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

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Originally Posted by robpalmer135 View Post
How do you think Cotto woul do agaisnt other Light Middles?

Williams
Martinez
Angulo
Cintron
Dzinzurik
Williams brings volume but not much pop. Also, he's not difficult to find. If Martinez could land a hard timed counter early on because of Williams' recklessness (he throws a lot but most of them hit air - simple fact), so can Cotto. But I can see an SD either way.

Martinez was getting outboxed by Pavlik at some points using timing. Also, Martinez punches with poor form but hits deceptively hard. Can't see Cotto winning this against a guy who's effective at 160, but it could be interesting and close till the last third when Cotto gets stopped.

Angulo... well, I've not seen too much of him. Struggles with movement, can be outboxed, but applies steady pressure and punches hard. Cotto can definitely beat him, but this would be a thriller if Angulo can get off with some good combos. I'd go for a Cotto UD.

Cotto beats Cintron and does so easily. Cintron telegraphs his big right and his boxing skills are passable, but nothing special. Cotto's bodywork would take the life from the defensively weak Puerto Rican, and Cintron would fold around the seventh.

Not seen anything of Dzinzurik, but from what I've read he's well-schooled and technical, and would present Cotto with serious problems.
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Old 06-08-2010, 07:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

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Originally Posted by icemax View Post
Some of us were
yes, you were. But it was still a good performance from Cotto. It's not like he struggled with Foreman, which would lead me to say Cotto was definitely faded. He outclassed Foreman in every department, only dropping one round by consensus on the scorecards.
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Old 06-08-2010, 07:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

Angulo has the style to smash Cotto IMO, regardless of how ****e he is.
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Old 06-08-2010, 07:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: Miguel Cotto: still counted out

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Originally Posted by dftaylor View Post
yes, you were. But it was still a good performance from Cotto. It's not like he struggled with Foreman, which would lead me to say Cotto was definitely faded. He outclassed Foreman in every department, only dropping one round by consensus on the scorecards.
In terms of being a shutout it was as close as they get.
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