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Old 06-08-2010, 08:53 AM   #1
itrymariti
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Default Hand Positioning

All the other threads are boring.

Partly fun, partly analytical. Pick a fighter, any fighter, with a particularly idiosyncratic way of holding their hands. Explain why they do it, how it helps them, how it fits into their style etc.

I'll start with

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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT1hknlqzIo[/ame]


At his best, Duran keeps his right hand glued to his chin and tends to dangle his left arm down a bit lower. The raised right hand protects against the left hook as well as putting the hand in perfect position to quickly shoot out a straight right at the opponent without having to "prepare" it by lifting it up to that position first. The straight right was probably Duran's best shot. The left arm is free for feinting/distracting the opponent, pawing as a range finder or starting off more unorthodox combinations involving left uppercuts or body shots etc. The seemingly relaxed stance also tempts an opponent to have a go at Duran with a jab or right lead, which plays into his hands, allowing him to slip and counter as he did perhaps better than anybody at his peak.

Your turn.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

irtymariti, goo didea for a thread, one thing you missed was the way Duran would shake that right hand and keep a rythm with it, giving it the appearance of always being a threat.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:54 AM   #3
itrymariti
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

Yep. Moving his right hand around and dipping his shoulder in - all part of the Duran feinting arsenal.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GfjgEl-FeU[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Zt8cdqCMY[/ame]
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

I like Sven Ottke. He seemed to have extra long arms or a longer proportion from the elbows to fist. He held those hands up high and seemed to cover his waist to just about the top of his skull. When he punched, he brought those hands right back to that position. most guys bring back low and then raise them to their proper position. He also kept those hands high the entire fight and might not even start to drop them a few inches until the 10th round or so.

Ottke literally gave nothing except his kidneys/shoulders/biceps/forearms to land a hard solid punch on. An ooponent really had to work to penetrate that guard. He hunched those shoulders inward and held those hands up so high it was literally impossible to land a clean combo on the guy.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EDKsWOKIlo[/ame]

This fella. Maybe not groundbreaking on first glance, yet unlike any other fighter I can remember watching.

Left hand sort of tilted somewhere between the traditional position and a defensive cradle. Perfect for snapping out the jab, whipping in the leading hook to the body and creating a defensive forcefield down the left side of his body. Right arm parallel to the ribs with the glove hovering in and around his chin. When forced back, drops the left into a complete cradle, tight against his ribs and keeps his right in it's usual position. Perfect positioning combined with amazing upper body movement so as to block, slip and parry every incoming blow while skyrocketing in counter-hooks and uppercuts from unblockable angles.

Look at Fuji, the poor bastard. Even every attempted feint by him never draws Locche into a more hittable position. While Locche's own hand and foot feints have Fuji flinching like a whipped dog.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

A lot of Argentinian fighters fought with a similar stance as Locche at times, despite the fact that they weren't the defensive masters he was. Most were very well schooled in defensive counter-punching and rolling off punches.

Tony Canzoneri is one that stands out in this regard. His right hand held stiffly at his side, chest height, his left hand dangling loosely, almost perpendicular to the floor. He relied on his excellent perception and anticipation of blows, combined with punching accuracy and general ring wherewithal to work this stance to his advantage. Amazing how accurate he was with that left hand given how loosely he threw it. Just a pair of naturally accurate fists, kind of like an Aaron Pryor in that regard. Then again the looseness of it is what often made it such an excellent countering tool, as it would more or less wrap around the opponent's leads. The right hand was like a shot-gun, often a lot more compact, though he was capable of loosening it up as well for the overhand.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Bujia View Post
A lot of Argentinian fighters fought with a similar stance as Locche at times, despite the fact that they weren't the defensive masters he was. Most were very well schooled in defensive counter-punching and rolling off punches.

Tony Canzoneri is one that stands out in this regard. His right hand held stiffly at his side, chest height, his left hand dangling loosely, almost perpendicular to the floor. He relied on his excellent perception and anticipation of blows, combined with punching accuracy and general ring wherewithal to work this stance to his advantage. Amazing how accurate he was with that left hand given how loosely he threw it. Just a pair of naturally accurate fists, kind of like an Aaron Pryor in that regard. Then again the looseness of it is what often made it such an excellent countering tool, as it would more or less wrap around the opponent's leads. The right hand was like a shot-gun, often a lot more compact, though he was capable of loosening it up as well for the overhand.
Yep. It's why I briefly inferred that Locche's general stance wasn't unique to him, but that his unusual physical build combined with his powers of reflex allowed him to position his hands (and the rest of his body in general) in a manner that even the likes of Canzoneri and Chocolate couldn't quite replicate in spite of the general similarity.

But it's mainly my unabashed and generally disturbing obsession with Locche that makes me want to bring him up at every possible opportunity.
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

Great thread idea itrymariti, nice write up on Duran as well.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

Calzaghe's hand positioning was grotesquely ugly, but effective within his style. Especially later in his career, there was not even the slightest attempt to retract after each extension to "reset" to a defensive position (or even pulled back far enough to deliver a properly turned over follow-up blow with any power behind it). Even fans of his can't really argue that he did indeed have a "slapping" style - much the way that domestic cats paw-fight. Even his detractors, however, can't really argue that he made the most of it (and it has to be noted that it was most likely adopted out of necessity due to the well-documented brittle hands). Even towards the end, he would still occasionally plant his feet and load up a proper uppercut, and it usually got the opponent's attention.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:12 AM   #10
itrymariti
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

Some very interesting responses so far.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:35 AM   #11
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

tyson. throughout his career exactly the same......yet cant find one f'n picture

short arms and stout body. needed a close guard not letting him get timed by leading his left hand too far. this stance and hand positioning allowed him to release combinations in any order because of it's neutrality.





winky wright

on the peekaboo theme, long arms and a massive body for the weight division. right handed fighter turned round and fought southpaw. used his heavy right hand as the mainstay of his fight plan. his high hands alllowed him to get close but also stay on the outside via his southpaw position. the 1-2 always being in position.
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Last edited by Vantage_West; 06-09-2010 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin_Ribs View Post
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This fella. Maybe not groundbreaking on first glance, yet unlike any other fighter I can remember watching.

Left hand sort of tilted somewhere between the traditional position and a defensive cradle. Perfect for snapping out the jab, whipping in the leading hook to the body and creating a defensive forcefield down the left side of his body. Right arm parallel to the ribs with the glove hovering in and around his chin. When forced back, drops the left into a complete cradle, tight against his ribs and keeps his right in it's usual position. Perfect positioning combined with amazing upper body movement so as to block, slip and parry every incoming blow while skyrocketing in counter-hooks and uppercuts from unblockable angles.

Look at Fuji, the poor bastard. Even every attempted feint by him never draws Locche into a more hittable position. While Locche's own hand and foot feints have Fuji flinching like a whipped dog.
Paul Fuji was a decent fighter and a huge hitter.I followed his title reign with interest, but he was reduced to nothing out of sheer frustration by one of the greatest defensive masters that I've ever seen in Locche.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

How about Hamed's low guard, yes it is not textbook and breaks rules but it also serves its purpose. Hamed would use his excellent footwork and movement (earlier in his career) and slipping ability as his defense. The dropped hands was a trap, he'd look to make an opponent punch him, slip and counter in 1move, which he did so well. His use of distance with both his torso and foot placement was masterful. The side on stance worked best with his slipping style and the crouch meant he was both a small target and a coiled spring ready to explode. The main weakness of this was when he was when he made the mistake of coming square on and breaking the cardinal sin of leaning backwards in a straight line. When his movement evaporated it left him a sitting duck for a boxer like Barrera who boxed and moved beautifully. I'm of the opinion it would have been a different fight years before
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

Ronald Wright. He holds his hands high, but avoids putting them in front of his eyes. He also keeps his elbows at a proper angle, which makes it hard to hit his body ever when he's covering his temples. You might think his style is simply a matter of keeping his hands up, but it's actually a very subtle and carefully developed defence.
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Old 06-12-2010, 09:30 AM   #15
itrymariti
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Default Re: Hand Positioning

bump
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