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Old 06-20-2010, 11:31 AM   #46
Duodenum
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

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Sorry to hear that mate. How in the heck did that come about if you don't mind me asking.
I was painting on a stepladder under protest. I have developed vertigo over the last few years, and a doubling of my body weight due to some medical problems over the last several years has screwed up my balance. My landlord/father coerced me into going up that ladder, then disappeared to do his own thing when my back was turned (where I always spot him for safety when he chooses to take that risk), after I warned him that he'd placed me in a dangerous and unnecessary situation. (It was painting that really did not need to be done.)

Anyhow, I was stepping back down from the ladder when my right foot missed the bottom rung, and I came crashing down on a concrete landing, with all my weight on that right leg, causing both my lower tibia and fibula to fracture. (I had a nice tire of swelling circling completely around my right ankle almost instantly, so I knew right away my summer was over in a split instant.)

This might have been prevented if somebody had been spotting me to catch and break my fall, but maybe it's better this way. Now, the aging idiot who badgered me into doing this favor is struggling on his own for at least three months, and he'll never be able to ask me to climb a ladder for him again. Beyond that, maybe he'll actually consider whether or not a particular task is genuinely essential to perform for keeping his house standing, or strictly bullshit busywork, a manufactured and totally imaginary urgency. Yes, I'm angry and disgusted, and I plan to retaliate by exploiting this for all it's worth. (Happy Father's Day, Dad! I've given you 12 weeks I can't have back. That's all you're getting this year.)
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I've got a couple of Eddie Futch interviews and i know he talks about the Garcia fight, i want to see what he said as i can't remember.
That would be interesting, if you can uncover them.
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:57 PM   #47
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

I think that norton would have defeated spinks by knockout in about 5 rounds. This would have set the stage for a forth fight with Ali. Ali, however, wants no part of norton and probably goes after the WBA title.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:33 AM   #48
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

Jeez Duo, doubly sorry to hear lol. Gawd! Work has gone berserk safety wise and i totally understand your stance.

A bloke i used to play cricket with broke a guys tibia and fibular out on the town. Had an argument and a guy came at him wielding his belt buckle LOL. Bloke from cricket hit him a monster as he charged in and his leg somehow ended up under him as he dropped and snappo. Pretty sizable court case that one. Broken tibs and fibs are quite a big deal and i sure wouldn't want to be in your position. I bet it hurt like f***.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:19 AM   #49
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

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Jeez Duo, doubly sorry to hear lol. Gawd! Work has gone berserk safety wise and i totally understand your stance.

A bloke i used to play cricket with broke a guys tibia and fibular out on the town. Had an argument and a guy came at him wielding his belt buckle LOL. Bloke from cricket hit him a monster as he charged in and his leg somehow ended up under him as he dropped and snappo. Pretty sizable court case that one. Broken tibs and fibs are quite a big deal and i sure wouldn't want to be in your position. I bet it hurt like f***.
Damn, John. Sounds like you hang out with a tough crowd! Thanks for the empathy.

Fortunately, mine were clean breaks which remained in alignment, nothing requiring surgery and screws, probably about as minor as a dual fracture of this sort could have been. Still, a protracted recovery period is involved. (While falling and making contact, I was actually more concerned about ruining my knee, or sustaining a compound fracture.) I was given a prescription for hydrocodone (Vicodin), and surprisingly needed none, but health care providers who have treated me in the past have told me they think I have a high tolerance for pain. (To be able to sleep, I did initially take 800 mg of over the counter ibuprofen at bedtime.) At first, every time I hopped on my good leg, little electric jolts would be sent through the fractures on my hanging bad leg as it got jostled up and down. (For me, the most excruciating pain I can clearly recall has been dental, when I've had infected root canals. No amount of hydrocodone relieves the agony, and I've had to wait until the antibiotics kicked in to experience relief. I've also thrown my back out more painfully, but at least then a combination of good chiropractic treatment and hydrocodone worked.)

What I've had to be concerned with is avoiding a stress fracture of my good leg while I wait to heal, or an awkward fall which does damage to my upper body, but I seem to be coming out of the woods as far as that risk. (The accident was on June 1.) By the end of this week, I've been advised I can start putting weight on the cast. But while pain isn't so much of an issue, the discomfort of having a hot, itchy, heavy boot chained to my leg and foot at all times is aggravating, and of course the fact of being an invalid while not otherwise healthy during the best weather of the year is grating. (This sort of thing might be more tolerable if it was frigid, snowy and icy outside, like it was when I previously broke my foot several years ago.) I'm too young to be negotiating my way around with a wheelchair and walker. (Crutches are not stable enough for me to use safely.)

As things stand now, I should be all right, but I sure wish this didn't first have to happen for me to effectively enforce my safety after I recover. When I was originally treated at the ER, they started me on a splint. After the swelling went down (and the pain subsided), I got my first cast. That cast had begun deteriorating by last Friday, so it got replaced. Hopefully, this one will stay intact until I get a removable one later in July. By the second week in September, I might be able to walk well enough to mow the lawn again.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:26 PM   #50
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

Leon gives Ken Hell for five rounds, afterwards, Norton takes over and stop Spinks in about eleven rounds.Leon will give him a better fight than most believe he will put up.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:07 PM   #51
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

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Shavers beats Norton at any virtually any point of their respective careers as does Foreman.
I'm not so sure I feel shavers is incredibly overrated considering He lost to almost anyone of significance in heavyweight history on his resume
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:11 PM   #52
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

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I'm not so sure I feel shavers is incredibly overrated considering He lost to almost anyone of significance in heavyweight history on his resume
As I'm fond of pointing out, Norton was a slower starter than Frazier, with Duane Bobick a wild anomaly. Earnie, on the other hand, was among the very fastest starters in heavyweight history. Ken entered his match with Foreman seemingly already shitting bricks, which may account for his surviving round one. Once Shavers decided to go bald though, he looked like the comically lovable Curly Neal of the Harlem Globetrotters, and never seemed to attempt intimidating anybody. The first clue Ken might have about what he'd be in for would be when he got hit, then it would be too late.

This could be a rare instance though in which Earnie did have Norton intimidated before the opening bell. Ken provided ringside analysis for NBC during Shavers-Tiger Williams in December 1976, and Ali-Shavers in September 1977, and was about as familiar with Earnie as any potential opponent could be without sparring or competing against him first. When they squared off in March 1979, Norton allowed Shavers to pull the trigger first, and was actually against the ropes before initially getting wobbled by that underrated left hook of Earnie's. I've seen nothing in either of their careers to suggest that Ken could have survived the first couple rounds against Shavers, maybe never even the opening three minutes.

Jerry Quarry was utterly shot when he desperately pummeled Ken against the ropes in round three after getting cut, and Norton spent virtually all of his match against Tex Cobb countering off the ropes. Ken was not Young, Lyle or Ali (and the Acorn was not a shot JQ or leverage deficient Cobb). For Norton, choosing to position himself against the ropes like Lyle did would be virtually suicidal, and he'd almost certainly adopt that tactic with Earnie.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:01 AM   #53
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

Leon , with a clear head and real dedication, would have bee much better suited for the cruiserweight division. He had plenty of heart but just wasn't big enough or strong enough, nor did he have the chin to have long term success as a heavyweight.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:02 AM   #54
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

He was stripped of the WBC Title for not signing to take on Norton barely a month after beating Ali. If Leon had opted to keep the championship undisputed, he never would have had a chance to devolve into a wild partying comic punchline. He'd have had to immediately return to work, and the parasites who swarmed him might have been shooed away successfully in order for him to concentrate on this new menace. Ali I should have been of immense value in boosting his confidence as well as extending his competitive preparedness.

I don't buy that he should have been a cruiserweight, even if the limit he had to make was 195 instead of 190. He was an amazing athlete who didn't breathe hard after a demanding sprint, but he hated roadwork. However, he could maintain a weight which Frazier could often only aspire to weigh in at during Joe's 1969-1970 peak, and had the physical potential to be a two eyed, two fisted Smoke given the same work ethic. Mercado suggests Leon could be far more than a mere cruiserweight. During his prime, Bernardo was only taken out by Hercules, Big John and Neon Leon, champions all, and Leon halted the very best prepared version of the big and deadly punching Columbian (who had rebounded from the back to back defeats by Tate and Weaver to starch the undefeated Berbick with a single shot) at a weight of 204, Liston's weight for Bethea, and Frazier's approximate weight from Mathis to the FOTC.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:24 AM   #55
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

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A cautionary reminder though, JT, that this was also believed of 188 pound stringbean Garcia when he first squared off with Ken (then on the brink of turning 27). Norton did manage to inflict some damage on Garcia in their first match, but Jose still beat the crap out of him. Ken outweighed Garcia by 20 pounds, about the same difference he would have held over Leon in 1978.

I do agree that Leon didn't have the firepower to hurt Norton sufficiently to stop him, although he had good power for his size.
A few things to consider here ..Garcia was a far more explosive puncher than Spinks ... it's not a matter of weight ... look at Satterfield ... the second is that Spinks would be fighting a far more experienced Norton , still on the top of his game ... it really would not have been much of a fight ..
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:59 PM   #56
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

Leon was a paper titlist... After recently watching ali post manilla I find myself agreeing with the consensus opinion on the ali v young fight.

Young then lost his people's championship claim to norton who then lost to larry.

Leon is just the guy that got the official nod. He fought no better than young nor norton and against a worse version of ali to boot.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #57
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

The in-shape Leon not on drugs, the one that won a gold medal and beat Ali, was a pretty good fighter. A younger Norton might have KO'd him, and possibly still does, but it isn't as clear as some think. Leon was young and frisky and had enough speed and pop and condition at that point that it might actually be a really fun fight. Slight edge to Norton to stop him but I wouldn't totally count out a young Leon not destroyed by partying. It is possible that he could outhustle an aging Norton. However, I suspect that the Spinks folks feared the possibility that he'd get starched by Norton; and preferred to go for the bigger payday against the man Leon had already beaten and had less of a chance to hurt him. Makes sense on both fronts.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:23 PM   #58
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Default Re: Supposing Leon Spinks had defended his title against Ken Norton...

Norton wins and maybe evens the score vs. Ali in a 4th fight, maybe he even gets the nod vs. Holmes with 2 HW World title Fight wins on his resume!?!
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