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Old 06-15-2010, 06:47 PM   #1
Popkins
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Default Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

Just watched Oscar-Mosley II again there. Scored it to Oscar by 5 points. In no way can I understand how a Shane win was given in that fight.

Anyway, my point is this:

This wrong decision had a MASSIVE impact on the legacies of these two fighters, especially Oscar De La Hoya.


Because of that fight, it is the common view that Shane Mosley had the Indian sign over Oscar, that he was the Iran Barkley to his Thomas Hearns or the Ricardo Mayorga to his Vernon Forrest... ie, the fighter who would simply always beat him, a bad style match for him, his bogeyman.

Bull****!!

I scored the 1st fight to Shane by 2 points, and the 2nd to Oscar by 5, after 24 rounds I had Oscar up by 3 points, a clear winner!

And yet because of incompetent judging, the history books will always show that Mosley went 2-0 against Oscar.

Obviously, that affects both men's resumes/legacies. Basically, a fight which Mosley patently lost is now considered either his second or third best win, depending on your view of the Margarito fight by comparison to Oscar II. On the other hand, a fight which Oscar clearly won is now on the ledger as a UD defeat, and only serves to fuel the theory that Oscar lost all his biggest fights (it's BS of course, but the theory is believed by a sizeable minority I'd say).

Now, consider for a minute the impact that this decision had on both men's careers at the time:


By 2003, Shane Mosley had twice been convincingly beaten by Vernon Forrest at welter, and had moved up to light-middle, seemingly accepting he could not beat the Viper.

Had he lost against Oscar at lightmiddle, where would there have been left to go? 3 defeats and a no-contest in his last 4, 3 defeats in his last 3 against top-class comp, defeats in the last two divisions he had fought in, defeats in the last three world title fights he had been in. He would've looked down, and seen Forrest. He would've looked up, and saw a division he was far too small for. If even if he had been given a rematch against Oscar, how can we think he would've done any better that time? He had just lost to the guy by a 5-point margin, as I saw it.

I think it's fair to say that Sugar Shane's career would have been in a crisis. His stock would have been very low, because Shane was never the most marketable fighter anyway. He may eventually have made it back to world title level, but I honestly believe it would have been a long and hard road for him, and considering the way his career would have plummeted from p4p#1 glory to starting again, there is a realistic chance he may not have had the spirit to stick it out.

Even if Shane had got another world title opportunity off the back of a defeat by Oscar, it's more than likely the opponent would have been Winky Wright, and we all know what happened there. A drubbing by Winky coming hot on the heels of three losses to Oscar and Vernon would surely have seen Shane staring into the abyss.



By 2003, Oscar De La Hoya was back in a great position in boxing. After the Mosley loss, he had freshened up his camp, knocked out Arturo Gatti in a high-profile confidence-booster, and then moved up to light-middle and produced maybe the best big-fight performance of his career to stop Fernando Vargas for the lmw titles to become a world champ in a 5th weight class.

Anyone with a brain knew he had beaten Felix Trinidad comfortably in their fight, so the Mosley loss was the only blemish on his record. If he'd beaten Shane in the rematch and gained vengeance, he'd be back near the top of the p4p charts, the most popular and powerful force in boxing. More importantly, his status would have been restored as a genuinely great fighter.

He'd still have had his lmw crown, and so may not have relinquished them right away to go for the desperate reach of middleweight glory. Had a confident, in-form Oscar faced the post-Hopkins Trinidad in a superfight rematch, he would have won in my opinion, and that would have put his standing through the roof again. Had he then fought Winky Wright... who knows. That's a tough fight to call. I know one thing though, he wouldn't have suffered the indignity of being knocked out for the only time in his career like he was vs Hopkins.


That decision gave Shane Mosley a status he did not deserve, and one he did not justify by his performances vs Winky. If you cast a cold, hard, objective look at Shane Mosley's record, he is a 3-weight champion in name only, he did not merit the Oscar decision, and Winky beat him soundly in his other lmw title fights. If you remove the 2nd Oscar win from his ledger, you are left with one stellar win (IMO the best win of the decade by any fighter) in Oscar 1, and one excellent win over Margarito, and not much else to shout about. He was a dominant lightweight champion, without proving it against anyone very good. He was a superb welterweight, but other than 2 wins he did not achieve much there either.

That decision gave Oscar De La Hoya a status he did not deserve, and one which had a hugely detrimental effect on his career and legacy. Until that point, Shane was the only man to have beaten him. If he had got the decision he deserved, he would have avenged that loss, and would then have been in a fantastic position with regard to his career. Oscar's performance in the 2nd fight with Shane was very good, maybe not excellent, it was still flawed, but all in all he boxed very well against a strong opponent, and he held his nerve when it mattered.



Anyway, I just wanted to share all that with the forum because I really felt a sense of injustice after re-watching that fight. I like Oscar and I like Shane, but I think Oscar was the superior boxer and had the better career, and I really think that the judges' mistake that night was a huge one for boxing in this decade.

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Old 06-15-2010, 06:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

He controlled the fight and boxed very effectively. I was in complete shock when Mosley was announced the winner.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

Even mosley was shocked he won, Oscar just did everything right and fought the right fight this time, and that was a mosley admittedly on PEDS, Oscar was on his A game
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

I was in a room of 20 people, me and another were the only ones rooting for Mosley and I was completely shocked.

Oscar won even on a roiding Mosley, even though Mosley was coming in on a bad streak.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

I do expect to catch some **** for this thread, because Shane is a much-loved figure on ESB (and rightly so, I respect his fight-anyone attitude as much as anyone), but these have been my honest opinions on that fight and on his career.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

What people fail to realize is that the judges whether wrong or right score it for Mosley because he landed the more effective punches. Biggest mistakes of the 00's, go kill yourself.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

Mosley won that fight hands down. Even the majority of ringside reporters scored it unaminously for Shane.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
I do expect to catch some **** for this thread, because Shane is a much-loved figure on ESB (and rightly so, I respect his fight-anyone attitude as much as anyone), but these have been my honest opinions on that fight and on his career.
Nah, That was a good post Popkins...

I value your opinion and can totally understand why you would have Oscar winning.. I had Shane by 115-114 I think, I posted my scorecard on here a while ago.

I also agree with you that had Oscar got the decision, his career might have been much different. And if you take away that fight from Shane, his career does seem a lot less stellar.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

Interesting perspective. I like both fighters and I think Oscar would have done far better had he been given that decision, and even Mosley's road would have been less rocky and he would had been able to compete greatly with less setbacks. I think they are pretty much equal fighters, shane's athletic ability is great and his resume is about equal to Oscar's, but he should have taken the loss to Oscar.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
Interesting perspective. I like both fighters and I think Oscar would have done far better had he been given that decision, and even Mosley's road would have been less rocky and he would had been able to compete greatly with less setbacks. I think they are pretty much equal fighters, shane's athletic ability is great and his resume is about equal to Oscar's, but he should have taken the loss to Oscar.
Oscar is superior to Shane is every category.

Oscar has:
won more title fights. 20+
consistantly beat better opposition. JCC, Whitaker, Fresher Vargas, Fresher Mayorga, Fresher Leija, Castillejo, Gatti, Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, Molina, Paez, Ruelas, Gonzalez etc...
won titles in more divisions. 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, 160.
Been crowned champion 10 times.

Mosley was a great LW who made a name by beating Oscar's left overs.
He then became a household name by getting a SD against Oscar, and further established his legacy by getting a GIFT against Oscar WHILE BEING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF PEDS!! Not a true win, and one that should be reversed.

Physically, prime for prime, I don't see what Shane does better than Oscar, except for maybe a tad bit faster in the hand speed department, which Oscar makes up for with his superior combinations.

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Old 06-15-2010, 09:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

Take a good look at Jack and Shane Mosley's reactions when they got the gift...even they were suprised at the verdict.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

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Originally Posted by PolishPummler View Post
Take a good look at Jack and Shane Mosley's reactions when they got the gift...even they were suprised at the verdict.
Jack was telling Mosley that he needed to go for the KO. Also Shane was complaining about Oscar's speed.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

Btw, great post Popkins.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

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Originally Posted by UliUli View Post
Physically, prime for prime, I don't see what Shane does better than Oscar, except for maybe a tad bit faster in the hand speed department, which Oscar makes up for with his superior combinations.
Prime for prime Oscar clearly lost. He definitely deserved the second though.

Also great post Popkins.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: Oscar vs Mosley II was the biggest mistake of the 00s

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Originally Posted by Wiirdo View Post
Prime for prime Oscar clearly lost. He definitely deserved the second though.

Also great post Popkins.
Yes, but I attribute that more to Oscar's EGO getting the best of him. Had Oscar not been robbed against Trinidad, Oscar would not have gone into the Mosley fight trying to knock his head off. rather he would have used his boxing punching style he was known for and boxed Mosley to a UD.

Oscar clearly won atleast at a minimum 4 of the first 6 rounds, and picked up one more round later in the fight..clearly.

Had Oscar fought agressively in the first half,a nd boxed in the second, he would have decisioned Mosley. But his ego got to him and decided to go ***** out for the entire 12, and lost.

So I guess Mosley showed better stamina too. I wonder how long Mosley had been roiding for anyway.
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