Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-18-2010, 01:49 PM   #16
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,924
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazOC View Post
By not being a middleweight and purposfully getting a detached retina!!
Although GrovesVsDegale missed Beestons point anyway, I do think that Leonards poor (first) comeback performance (well, poor by his standards and taking into account the opposition) and Leonards intelligence DID lead him to wait for Hagler to have more tough fights.

Then bitched his way through the fight when it happened.

But then, that is another thread entirely
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-18-2010, 01:49 PM   #17
GazOC
Guest Star for Team Taff
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Spion Kop
Posts: 30,799
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler View Post
I didn't want to blatantly come out with ''Leonard ducked Hagler'' given my reputation as a Leonard hater/Hagler fan.....

Plus there was that dodgy eye courtesy of Tommy Hearns' jab

If only that fight was 12 rounds

Its never a simple as that, maybe Leonard would have started to pressure earlier?
GazOC is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:52 PM   #18
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,924
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazOC View Post
Its never a simple as that, maybe Leonard would have started to pressure earlier?
True.

When people say Arguello came on strong in the last 3 rounds (and Sal Sanchez) I tend to think 'they're not retards, they would know they had less time'

However, how do we know that undefeated, Welterweight Hearns couldn't have withstood/counteracted that pressure over 12?
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:53 PM   #19
Beeston Brawler
Comical Ali-egedly
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: trying to increase my overdraft....
Posts: 23,338
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Yeah he would have done.... Hearns barely had the legs for 12 never mind 15 rounds.

Plus his balance was absolutely gash for someone as heavy handed and skilful as he was.
Beeston Brawler is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:53 PM   #20
GazOC
Guest Star for Team Taff
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Spion Kop
Posts: 30,799
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Although GrovesVsDegale missed Beestons point anyway, I do think that Leonards poor (first) comeback performance (well, poor by his standards and taking into account the opposition) and Leonards intelligence DID lead him to wait for Hagler to have more tough fights.

Then bitched his way through the fight when it happened.

But then, that is another thread entirely
Leonard was poor in the Howard fight and retired bacause of that but just because he then decides to come back years later when Hagler was on the slide (people say that like Leonard was prime for the fight!!) does mean he ducked Hagler.....he was retired and had never even fought in the same division as Hagler when he was active.

Its as disgracefull as Hagler ducking Michael Spinks.
GazOC is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:55 PM   #21
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,924
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

HEY!!!!!!!! Leonard was already establishing himself as a man who moved up in weght, Marv was never going to make a 15LB (!!!!!!!) jump up to face a gargantuan like Spinks.

I DO hate Leonard........but I don't allow that to get in the way of me judging him as a fighter. I PRAISE HIM BIG TIME for taking the fight with Marv, regardless of when he took it.

It's the way he went about 'winning' (and yes I intended those marks) that irks me

Monzon DID NOT want any of Foster though
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:55 PM   #22
dftaylor
Writer, fanatic
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,404
vCash: 500
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Leonard avoided Hagler for years
Hagler was two divisions above Leonard. There no avoiding anybody. Hagler wanted to fight for the money.
dftaylor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:56 PM   #23
GazOC
Guest Star for Team Taff
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Spion Kop
Posts: 30,799
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
True.

When people say Arguello came on strong in the last 3 rounds (and Sal Sanchez) I tend to think 'they're not retards, they would know they had less time'

However, how do we know that undefeated, Welterweight Hearns couldn't have withstood/counteracted that pressure over 12?

We don't, thats my point. As you say, you can't always just take the scores at the end of round 12 of a 15 round fight and say which fighter would have won.

Bottom line: both Hearns and Leonard knew it was a 15 round fight and fought their fights accordingly (or should have!!)
GazOC is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:56 PM   #24
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,924
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dftaylor View Post
Hagler was two divisions above Leonard. There no avoiding anybody. Hagler wanted to fight for the money.
Leonard had fought at 154. So that's one division.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:58 PM   #25
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,924
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazOC View Post
We don't, thats my point. As you say, you can't always just take the scores at the end of round 12 of a 15 round fight and say which fighter would have won.

Bottom line: both Hearns and Leonard knew it was a 15 round fight and fought their fights accordingly (or should have!!)
Agreed, I was only jesting with that last line. A great win for Leonard, but as Rob BRILLIANTLY pointed out in his OP, a fight which elevated the status' of both fighters, regardless of who won and who lost.

That's why Floyd isn't anywhere near approaching a top 50 ATG; he's never had anyone that could truly push him that hard. There is someone now and he doesn't seem to want it. Pac has already faced Elite challenges.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:59 PM   #26
Beeston Brawler
Comical Ali-egedly
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: trying to increase my overdraft....
Posts: 23,338
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

How did everyone score Leonard vs Hagler?

As daft as it sounds..... neither of them really won it - Hagler fought the wrong fight and Leonard spent 12 running around and waving to the crowd, interrupted with brief 30 second flurries here and there.

114-114
Beeston Brawler is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:59 PM   #27
kosaros
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 13,327
vCash: 999
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

We should follow Japan's lead - they don't glorify the '0'.
kosaros is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:59 PM   #28
GazOC
Guest Star for Team Taff
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Spion Kop
Posts: 30,799
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
HEY!!!!!!!! Leonard was already establishing himself as a man who moved up in weght, Marv was never going to make a 15LB (!!!!!!!) jump up to face a gargantuan like Spinks.

I DO hate Leonard........but I don't allow that to get in the way of me judging him as a fighter. I PRAISE HIM BIG TIME for taking the fight with Marv, regardless of when he took it.

It's the way he went about 'winning' (and yes I intended those marks) that irks me

Monzon DID NOT want any of Foster though
Leonard had a grand total of 1 title fight at 154 before he retired, hardly Henry Armstrong material!!

Marvin ****ed up the first 4 rounds and it cost him big time.
GazOC is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 01:59 PM   #29
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,924
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler View Post
How did everyone score Leonard vs Hagler?

As daft as it sounds..... neither of them really won it - Hagler fought the wrong fight and Leonard spent 12 running around and waving to the crowd, interrupted with brief 30 second flurries here and there.

114-114
This

To add another 'if only' (that is totally inconsequential because it never happened) Hagler boxing orthodox for the first few rounds cost him that decision.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 02:00 PM   #30
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,924
vCash: 75
Default Re: The importantce of being undefeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosaros View Post
We should follow Japan's lead - they don't glorify the '0'.
And they don't acknowledge the WBO

That's a start...........now to dismiss the rest of the titles
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013