Prime Leonard vs todays Mayweather

[itrymariti]

Mayweather has a quality jab. He should have used it more IMO. He can obviously get by with the flashier stuff instead, but it's always a useful tie-breaker when you get to the top level.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Popkins

Yawn.

James Tillis, Mitch Green, Bonecrusher Smith and Razor Ruddock all went the distance with Mike Tyson, so I suppose that automatically means that late 80s/early 90s Tyson would not be able to stop 2010's unstopped Nikolay Valuev.

Mike Colbert, Ernie Singletary and Murray Sutherland all went the distance with Thomas Hearns, so I suppose that automatically means that ww/lmw Hearns would not be able to stop 2010's unstopped Andre Berto.

Fermin Chirino, Lou del Valle, Reggie Johnson, David Telesco and Julio Cesar Gonzalez all went the distance with Roy Jones, so I suppose that automatically means that lhw Jones would not be able to stop 2010's unstopped Tavoris Cloud.


Your reasoning is just so shite I don't know how you've lasted this long without the moderators banning you for crimes against boxing discussion.

So Leonard didn't stop everyone he faced at welter, but who does knock out every single opponent they face at a weight they stayed at for a prolonged time?

The very best version of Ray Leonard is just so many light years ahead of a D-class plodder like Carlos Baldomir, its such an insane mismatch that there just cannot be any way that neither the ref nor the corner nor Baldo himself would be able to keep that match-up going.

How the fuck do you think Baldomir would make it to the final bell?! What would he do exactly, how would the fight go?!! I'm dying to hear this, this is going to be good...

Again not answering the question, how did 10 men including journeymen make it to the final bell against the brutal Leonard?

Did I say Leonard couldn't wouldn't stop Baldo/Mosley, NO, I said he wouldn't necessarily, but you're convinced they wouldn't make it out of the 3rd round - your words - that is if you have a basic grasp of maths

You know you're full of shit and constantly owned and just looking to spin your way out of your constant shit talking, if you don't know how journeymen make it to the final bell, why don't you just admit you know fuck all about boxing?

Again not expecting answers to any questions, you're too retarded for that, tell us how BHOPs got kd'ed twice in the same round against Mercado again

[itrymariti]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

1. BS Leonard was getting outboxed and had to turn the fight with FMS into a brawl, which he did very well in but he was having problems with the style

So you are claiming that Floyd Mayweather Sr. actually out-boxed a near-prime Sugar Ray Leonard?

Just keep taking the pills.

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

'Leonard was being totally casual and gave him zero respect' Pathetic excuse, if Leonard was giving him zero respect he wouldn't be getting backed to the ropes. I honestly think you had only seen the end of the fight when you first commented

No, believe me, I have the fight on tape and have watched it more than once actually. I've brought it up many times before as evidence of how Leonard could just impose his physical attributes against smaller/weaker opponents whom he didn't respect, e.g. Floyd Jr.

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

2. Duran got schooled by Benitez and Laing very near his prime at the ages of 30/31, that all I need to know

Yes PowerPuncher, Kirland Laing was better than a prime Duran.

[itrymariti]

Leonard won practically every round of that fight and did spend half his time not fighting seriously.

[El Bujia]

I guess those 10 journeymen were just tougher/better fighters than Hearns, Benitez, Duran, Kalule, etc. That is what you were implying, right, PowerPuncher?

[Popkins]

Originally Posted by itrymariti

Bringing up opponents who "went the distance" against a fighter at a certain weight are always pretty lamentable attempts at justification. It's like the old "If X could trouble Y then imagine what Z would do!" You might as well start claiming Mayweather would beat Napoles because Napoles lost to Urbina.

Bear in mind that you are talking about a guy who has now made these three claims within a week...

- Ricky Hatton at welterweight is physically stronger and has better punch resistance than Julio Cesar Chavez did at superfeatherweight, p4p

- Bernard Hopkins in 1993 with no known names on his record, no world title experience whatsoever, and only two championship distance fights under his belt, was a better scalp than Marco Antonio Barrera was in 2003 (when he was p4p#3, a 2-weight world champ, & held wins over Hamed & Morales) or Juan Manuel Marquez was in 2008 (when he was p4p ranked, a 2-weight world champ, & held a draw with Pacquiao and wins over Barrera, Juarez, Gainer & Peden)

and now

- Prime Ray Leonard is incapable of getting a KO or TKO win at his best weight vs Carlos Baldomir


Even for PowerPuncher, he is on fire just now!!

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by teeto

I'l go one further, i think he could have stopped Mosley the way that fight was going, if he could combo/finish better at this weight, but no excuses anyway.

I just reckon he's jabbing more because he's a versatile fighter and he can fight like that, maybe it does have something to do with his deteriorating speed, but it's not like he's slow now or anything. Like i say though, i don't think his legs have dropped off.

As a known nutthugger I disagree with the stopping Mosley bit, he really wanted a Mosley KO under his belt. Mosley wasn't far off going but either Floyd doesn't commit enough to force stoppages or he doesn't have the power. Not sure if thats him trying to be economical/defensive or he just can't put the combinations together anymore. I remember when he faced Corrales, after the firs 3 FMS said 'you'll have him out by the 7th if you keep doing what your doing'. So he had him down in the 7th, went for the kill and couldn't pull it out. Make of that what you will

I'd say its either strategy or age that is making FMJ jab more, a jab is no bad thing ofcourse and its advisable to to change up your style with age. But we all get old

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by El Bujia

I guess those 10 journeymen were just tougher/better fighters than Hearns, Benitez, Duran, Kalule, etc. That is what you were implying, right, PowerPuncher?

Go and rewatch those brutal stoppages of Benitez/Duran and get back to me

[El Bujia]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Go and rewatch those brutal stoppages of Benitez/Duran and get back to me

What is the point you're trying to make when asking the question you've been asking? That's all I'd like to know.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by itrymariti

1. So you are claiming that Floyd Mayweather Sr. actually out-boxed a near-prime Sugar Ray Leonard? Just keep taking the pills.

2. No, believe me, I have the fight on tape and have watched it more than once actually. I've brought it up many times before as evidence of how Leonard could just impose his physical attributes against smaller/weaker opponents whom he didn't respect, e.g. Floyd Jr.

3. Yes PowerPuncher, Kirland Laing was better than a prime Duran.

1. At times FMS clearly did outbox Leonard

2. Specsavers

3. 1-0 Kirkland Laing over a slightly past prime Duran

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by El Bujia

What is the point you're trying to make when asking the question you've been asking? That's all I'd like to know.

Whats your retarded point on asking about the brutal stoppages of Duran/Benitez - tell me how brutal those stoppages were again??????

I'm saying Leonard wouldn't necessarily stop ironed chinned Mosley/Baldomir - unstoppable men against their contemparies. I'm not saying he wouldn't stop them - never said he wouldn't/couldn't. I'm saying 10 men went the distance with him - including gatekeepers/journeymen that probably didn't have the chin of Baldomir. And no I'm not basing Baldomir's chin on the Floyd fight, but the Forrest/Judah/Gatti/Clottey fights

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Popkins

Bear in mind that you are talking about a guy who has now made these three claims within a week...

- Ricky Hatton at welterweight is physically stronger and has better punch resistance than Julio Cesar Chavez did at superfeatherweight, p4p

- Bernard Hopkins in 1993 with no known names on his record, no world title experience whatsoever, and only two championship distance fights under his belt, was a better scalp than Marco Antonio Barrera was in 2003 (when he was p4p#3, a 2-weight world champ, & held wins over Hamed & Morales) or Juan Manuel Marquez was in 2008 (when he was p4p ranked, a 2-weight world champ, & held a draw with Pacquiao and wins over Barrera, Juarez, Gainer & Peden)

and now

- Prime Ray Leonard is incapable of getting a KO or TKO win at his best weight vs Carlos Baldomir


Even for PowerPuncher, he is on fire just now!!

Fuckwit you clearly have reading comprehension problems. I never said Leonard could NOT stop Baldomir, I said he wouldn't necessarily and I wouldn't necessarily expect it, especially in 3 rounds like you claimed. Learn how to read you fucking retard

[El Bujia]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Whats your retarded point on asking about the brutal stoppages of Duran/Benitez - tell me how brutal those stoppages were again??????

When did I mention brutality? Are you making my arguments for me to make it easier on yourself?

I'm saying Leonard wouldn't necessarily stop ironed chinned Mosley/Baldomir - unstoppable men against their contemparies. I'm not saying he wouldn't stop them - never said he wouldn't/couldn't. I'm saying 10 men went the distance with him - including gatekeepers/journeymen that probably didn't have the chin of Baldomir. And no I'm not basing Baldomir's chin on the Floyd fight, but the Forrest/Judah/Gatti/Clottey fights

So, in essence, you have no point? You've just admitted Leonard capable of stopping either of them, but when one of the other posters suggests as much you simply turn to the simpleton "He didn't stop everyone he ever fought" argument.

You're pretty damn stupid.

[teeto]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

As a known nutthugger I disagree with the stopping Mosley bit, he really wanted a Mosley KO under his belt. Mosley wasn't far off going but either Floyd doesn't commit enough to force stoppages or he doesn't have the power. Not sure if thats him trying to be economical/defensive or he just can't put the combinations together anymore. I remember when he faced Corrales, after the firs 3 FMS said 'you'll have him out by the 7th if you keep doing what your doing'. So he had him down in the 7th, went for the kill and couldn't pull it out. Make of that what you will

I'd say its either strategy or age that is making FMJ jab more, a jab is no bad thing ofcourse and its advisable to to change up your style with age. But we all get old

Haha, nah sorry PP, but i thought Mosley was feeling the weight of Floyd's shots and was surprised by his strength a lot.

Anyway, it's world cup time so i'll let you all get back to your debate.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by El Bujia

1. When did I mention brutality? Are you making my arguments for me to make it easier on yourself?

2.So, in essence, you have no point? You've just admitted Leonard capable of stopping either of them, but when one of the other posters suggests as much you simply turn to the simpleton "He didn't stop everyone he ever fought" argument.

You're pretty damn stupid.

1. You imply he stopped them, in essence they aren't KO's, why even quote them? because you're full of shit, YES

2. If you are going to be ignorant enough not to follow the thread, then STFU! My initial objection was to that fuckwit Popkins claim that Leonard stops Mosley/Baldomir under 3 rounds, no its not a given Leonard stops them at all, especially given 10 men went the distance with Leonard at 147 including journeymen and gatekeepers. Now obviously you're just as dumb as he is

3. Does Leonard stop Baldomir and Mosley under 3 rounds like Popkins claims? If not why are you arguing retard? STFU and put a proper none homo avatar up

4. Did you even know boxers who know they are losing close up shop and stop trying to win, which makes them very hard to KO. I doubt you do