boxing

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Twitter MMA Facebook Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2013, 09:38 AM   #256
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 26,943
vCash: 75
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
i think ike has to qualify as an all time great fighter before he can be compared to one.
Yeah come to think of it that's what people said at the time "Lewis cannot fight Ike cos he ain't no atg"

Ffs.
lufcrazy is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 01:56 PM   #257
choklab
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bad to the bone and sexy
Posts: 8,157
vCash: 500
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Yeah come to think of it that's what people said at the time "Lewis cannot fight Ike cos he ain't no atg"

Ffs.
obviously he did not have to be an all time great Just to challenge lewis! I am saying ike needs to have at least beat one fighter considered the best in the world before he can be talked about as being such a worthy lock to beat marciano. who is saying ike needs to be an all time great to challenge lennox? lewis fought mavrovic didn't he? Obviously lewis could have fought ike but maybe if he did Lewis might have kayoed him, nobody will ever know. its just a shame ike never was a great fighter.... or beat a great fighter in his life time.
choklab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #258
Seamus
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 16,548
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
obviously he did not have to be an all time great Just to challenge lewis! I am saying ike needs to have at least beat one fighter considered the best in the world before he can be talked about as being such a worthy lock to beat marciano. who is saying ike needs to be an all time great to challenge lennox? lewis fought mavrovic didn't he? Obviously lewis could have fought ike but maybe if he did Lewis might have kayoed him, nobody will ever know. its just a shame ike never was a great fighter.... or beat a great fighter in his life time.
The problem with this logic is that greatness in the heavyweight division is relative over the course of generations; it is not a static equivalency. It is the one division where the mean size has increased so greatly. They are simply a different class of fighter today than they were 60 years ago. Some of yesteryear's cream of the crop would be woefully out of their depth against b raters from the 1990's.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links


Old 03-03-2013, 02:48 PM   #259
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 26,943
vCash: 75
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
obviously he did not have to be an all time great Just to challenge lewis! I am saying ike needs to have at least beat one fighter considered the best in the world before he can be talked about as being such a worthy lock to beat marciano. who is saying ike needs to be an all time great to challenge lennox? lewis fought mavrovic didn't he? Obviously lewis could have fought ike but maybe if he did Lewis might have kayoed him, nobody will ever know. its just a shame ike never was a great fighter.... or beat a great fighter in his life time.
Noone is saying he's a lock. Some people are picking him to win as some people would have done during rocky's time were he scheduled to defend against him.

The worst thing on this forum is when people put greats on this kind of pedestal.

Rock is only human. I guarantee there is not a fighter in written history that would find Ike a walkover. Let alone a fighter giving away 50 pounds in weight.

How anyone How an **** upon this matchup is fukin beyond me. Grow the **** up man.
lufcrazy is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 02:21 PM   #260
choklab
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bad to the bone and sexy
Posts: 8,157
vCash: 500
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Noone is saying he's a lock. Some people are picking him to win as some people would have done during rocky's time were he scheduled to defend against him.

The worst thing on this forum is when people put greats on this kind of pedestal.

Rock is only human. I guarantee there is not a fighter in written history that would find Ike a walkover. Let alone a fighter giving away 50 pounds in weight.

How anyone How an **** upon this matchup is fukin beyond me. Grow the **** up man.
I am not putting marciano on a pedestal i think others are putting ibeabuchi on a pedestal. Tua kept finding him with sweeping over hand rights and most people believe he beat ike anyway. knocking out bryd before he became a top 3 heavyweight is kind of like Tua knocking out Ruiz before he became a top 3 heavyweight ...it dont make no all time great.

All ibeabuchi proved was he was a big versatile heavyweight with a good workrate and fair chin at contender level. World class yes. All time great class no. sure ike would and should give even the greatest in history a test since he was proven at world class.

Based on his Tua fight performance it showed ike was as good as most champions had been for their coming out show case fight but he would need to build on it surely? He was about where Tyson was against Mitch green, promising. Against a one handed strong short heavyweight ibeabuchi showed for four rounds he could beat the slower man to the punch without hurting him. Then as Tua got into the fight ike showed he wasnt hard to hit. Although he would carry on trading It was no dominating performance - just a tough fight.

As for the workrate it was good but the highest number of punches were recorded in rounds where less force was used. Ike was outworking Tua more in a defensive way to prevent david from getting set - he wasn't kicking ass or trying to. working his hands like that wasnt hurting anyone. Now people can get carried away and say that kind of work against a 30lb lighter fighter would be lethal but the smaller man would have more room to react when ike was leaning across tua's cumbersome body to let his hands go.
choklab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 04:22 PM   #261
Bummy Davis
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 11,172
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
I am not putting marciano on a pedestal i think others are putting ibeabuchi on a pedestal. Tua kept finding him with sweeping over hand rights and most people believe he beat ike anyway. knocking out bryd before he became a top 3 heavyweight is kind of like Tua knocking out Ruiz before he became a top 3 heavyweight ...it dont make no all time great.

All ibeabuchi proved was he was a big versatile heavyweight with a good workrate and fair chin at contender level. World class yes. All time great class no. sure ike would and should give even the greatest in history a test since he was proven at world class.

Based on his Tua fight performance it showed ike was as good as most champions had been for their coming out show case fight but he would need to build on it surely? He was about where Tyson was against Mitch green, promising. Against a one handed strong short heavyweight ibeabuchi showed for four rounds he could beat the slower man to the punch without hurting him. Then as Tua got into the fight ike showed he wasnt hard to hit. Although he would carry on trading It was no dominating performance - just a tough fight.

As for the workrate it was good but the highest number of punches were recorded in rounds where less force was used. Ike was outworking Tua more in a defensive way to prevent david from getting set - he wasn't kicking ass or trying to. working his hands like that wasnt hurting anyone. Now people can get carried away and say that kind of work against a 30lb lighter fighter would be lethal but the smaller man would have more room to react when ike was leaning across tua's cumbersome body to let his hands go.

All good posts
Bummy Davis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 05:07 AM   #262
choklab
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bad to the bone and sexy
Posts: 8,157
vCash: 500
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

intrestingly in the commentary for ike's fight against 210 unbeaten Greg pikrom the commentator says "greg looks the same size, these are both big guys" at that point greg is considered the better prospect -( especially after he knocks ibeabuchi onto one knee) the commentary discuss the merits of cruiserweights, something is said about because Pickrom had started out at 174 would he make a great cruiserweight? the other guy says who would want a cruiserweight unless he had to? which kind of explains the whole 1990s heavyweight ethos. Here we have two muscular heavyweights comparable in size and frame only one once weighed 174 pounds. Nobody wanted to be a cruiserweight. It begs the question that if cruiser did not exist would fighters need to build themselves up beyond its limit? Now i am not suggesting there is proof if ibeabuchi was ever smaller than 220 but the guy was not naturaly proportioned. On checking the record of pickrom (comparable frame to ibeabuchi remember) his bodymass grew by 35lb within his first year as a pro. hmmmm....
choklab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 03:05 PM   #263
mrkoolkevin
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: U.S.
Posts: 4,141
vCash: 500
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

[delete ]

Last edited by mrkoolkevin; 05-19-2016 at 09:02 PM.
mrkoolkevin is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 03:09 PM   #264
HerolGee
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,415
vCash: 500
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

rocky takes him out late as ikes discipline fades.
HerolGee is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 03:24 PM   #265
rex11y
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 279
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
I know what you mean, Homicidal Hank. Some people think he was the greatest ever, no matter what.

They may realize that he may have been the toughest fighter ever, and was one hell of a puncher for his size. Then they think that would carry him past every heavyweight ever. They seem oblivious to look at the fighters Rocky defeated in his most notable wins. They don't seem to look at the fact that Walcott was the oldest man to win the title at the time of Walcott's crowning. He was 37. A record that stood for around 40 years. They don't pay attention to the blown up light heavyweight, Ezzard Charles, being past his prime. They don't notice that Moore, the blown up light heavyweight, was in his 40's. They look at his 49-0 record, and forget he only made 6 title defenses.
He wasn't the greatest ever but his style made him a nightmare for other fighters much in the way that Frazier gave fits to Ali. Too much is made of Marciano's size and not enough of his relentlessnes and will to win. You would have to pin him to the floor to beat him and unless you had the punch to acheive that you would be in for a hell of a fight. You should also not underestimate the calibre of opponent that he beat with Walcott, Charles Moore and Louis being Hall of Fame fighters. Few of today's fighters have anything near these guys skill levels.
rex11y is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 09:03 PM   #266
mrkoolkevin
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: U.S.
Posts: 4,141
vCash: 500
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dostoevsky View Post
Ike Ibeabuchi TKO 3

Ike is just too big,fast,strong,heavy.

everything Marciano has, Ike has, and is better.
I know the old timers who defend the champions of the past will go ape **** at that but i just don't see how he could possibly beat someone of Ikes skill level and size.
Sounds right to me.
mrkoolkevin is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2016, 03:39 AM   #267
mcvey
ESB Junkie
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 32,909
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
Ike really never fought anyone but the (Vlad Klitschko Dominated Byrd) and a disputed decision over the( Byrd dominated Tua,) Tua was Slow,Fat, but IMO he beat IKE and many others felt the same, So kiddies Clubber Lang and IVAN Drago may have been ATG's in your minds because of the way they looked....IKE was not in the ATG class, not even a solid serious contender for long and like I said above WHO did he beat, we are letting are imaginations get carried away, Lennox Lewis may have KO'd him in the same manner he took out Grant, what if Grant went to prison before that fight would you be saying the same thing. Ring worth is proven in the Ring not in the imagination of the fans like wrestling...IKE was a contender for a short while and never proved he could do more
Was Tua slower than Marciano?
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2016, 03:44 AM   #268
mcvey
ESB Junkie
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 32,909
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
I am not putting marciano on a pedestal i think others are putting ibeabuchi on a pedestal. Tua kept finding him with sweeping over hand rights and most people believe he beat ike anyway. knocking out bryd before he became a top 3 heavyweight is kind of like Tua knocking out Ruiz before he became a top 3 heavyweight ...it dont make no all time great.

All ibeabuchi proved was he was a big versatile heavyweight with a good workrate and fair chin at contender level. World class yes. All time great class no. sure ike would and should give even the greatest in history a test since he was proven at world class.

Based on his Tua fight performance it showed ike was as good as most champions had been for their coming out show case fight but he would need to build on it surely? He was about where Tyson was against Mitch green, promising. Against a one handed strong short heavyweight ibeabuchi showed for four rounds he could beat the slower man to the punch without hurting him. Then as Tua got into the fight ike showed he wasnt hard to hit. Although he would carry on trading It was no dominating performance - just a tough fight.

As for the workrate it was good but the highest number of punches were recorded in rounds where less force was used. Ike was outworking Tua more in a defensive way to prevent david from getting set - he wasn't kicking ass or trying to. working his hands like that wasnt hurting anyone. Now people can get carried away and say that kind of work against a 30lb lighter fighter would be lethal but the smaller man would have more room to react when ike was leaning across tua's cumbersome body to let his hands go.
Tua was quicker than Marciano both of hand and foot, and he was NOT ONE HANDED, he scored ko's with his right cross and had an excellent right uppercut! He was also no easier to hit than Marciano! Tua is 5'10" Marciano just1/2taller,Tua has more reach and a better chin plus he had a jab!.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2016, 03:47 AM   #269
mcvey
ESB Junkie
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 32,909
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Noone is saying he's a lock. Some people are picking him to win as some people would have done during rocky's time were he scheduled to defend against him.

The worst thing on this forum is when people put greats on this kind of pedestal.

Rock is only human. I guarantee there is not a fighter in written history that would find Ike a walkover. Let alone a fighter giving away 50 pounds in weight.

How anyone How an **** upon this matchup is fukin beyond me. Grow the **** up man.
Marciano was not human that is the whole point, he was a god who defied the laws of physics and refuted the eye- test.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2016, 04:11 AM   #270
ribtickler68
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,978
vCash: 500
Default Re: Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

I'm not sure Marciano's style is suited to beating much bigger guys. Let's say he had modern "help" and he went up to 200lbs: would he be effective at that weight?

It's hard to say, when you consider how Holyfield added considerable weight yet kept his key strengths of durability and high work rate. But Holyfield also had good mobility, reach and height going for him.

It's all guesswork with Rocky because he didn't fight big heavyweights. I just have the feeling that Marciano was ideally suited to the smaller heavyweights, in the same way that Hagler was a perfect middleweight, but might have looked an average light heavy.
ribtickler68 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015